Weight Loss, the Mental Game, & Having Habits Stick with Coach Caroline | DFIO Ep.266
About Today’s Episode:
Today is a REALLY cool episode. I have a team member of mine—one of my coaches—Caroline, on the show.
Caroline is a registered dietitian, is super smart, and she brings a different perspective to this transformation game.
We get into her story, the struggles she had with disordered eating and exercise when she was younger, and what finally clicked and changed her life forever.
We really get into a LOT.
There is some amazing information here that will help you not only lose the weight, but make permanent changes in your lives.
Let’s get into it!
05:33 Caroline’s Story
26:58 Why We Need Carbs
41:15 Having Habits Stick
Transcript (click to expand)
Weight Loss, the Mental Game, & Having Habits Stick with Coach Caroline | DFIO Ep.266
0:00:00.0 Caroline: People are looking for an answer. They want that to be the answer. They think that they've solved the problem and found like the golden star or the key to success when you can blame something like carbs. If that was it, then it would change their whole life. So I think people really just want the very simple answer, it's easier if carbs are to blame. If they have something to blame, I think that that's the easy way out.
0:00:27.1 Jared Hamilton: What's going on friends? Welcome back to a brand new episode this week of Fieting from the Inside Out. If you're new around here, my name is Jared Hamilton, and I'm so excited that you're here. For real, there's a lot of places you could be on the internet, and the fact that you're here with me is pretty fucking dope, so I appreciate that, and I appreciate you. Now, today is a really cool episode because I wanted to give you a whole different perspective around how to lose the weight and change your life permanently where it never... Or the success, I should say, never goes away. And I did that with a little bit different style of interview. So I actually have a team member of mine, one of my coaches that you guys have never met before on the podcast, for some reason, she's been part of the team for a while now, and it just, schedules just were colliding, it just wasn't happening getting her on the show, but Caroline is a registered dietitian, extremely intelligent and brilliant and such a fantastic coach, because she comes from a different perspective from... She struggled, and she opens up about her story a little bit, where from her struggles like in high school, some like disordered eating and a horrible relationship with exercise, but then went to school, became a registered dietitian, and is now extremely educated and very, very, very good at what she does inside our coaching program.
0:01:40.3 Jared Hamilton: Her perspective is just different, which is beautiful. I love it, I love bringing in different people who... We share the same mission, we share the same beliefs, but our perspectives are very different because you'll probably resonate with her in a different way than you will with me, just because of different life experiences, but we had a great conversation around... We went all over the place. Why you should not be scared to eat more; why eating things like carbs and sugar are actually helpful for losing weight than keeping it off; how to basically make this game way more simpler, way more doable, way easier, but more importantly, how to have permanent results in the fastest and most sustainable way possible.
0:02:14.4 Jared Hamilton: So yeah, we got into a lot, and I know you'll get a lot out of this episode, but before we get into the actual interview, huge thank you to the sponsors of the show. Sponsor number one is FlexPro Meals, always gotta say a big thank you to them for keeping my fridge stocked, but a lot of our clients use them and it just makes things so much easier and more seamless when it comes to your nutrition, because if we're being honest, spending a lot of time in drive-throughs makes weight loss a little bit harder, you don't feel as good, and in this economy, you're gonna be spending quite a bit more money. I think I went to Chipotle the other day, I was out of town. I went to Chipotle with my wife and just the two of us was like over $30, and which is just crazy if you think about it, but FlexPro is going to give you food that is actual real food. It's made by a chef. It tastes great, it's more convenient and faster than fast food, but it's way more affordable, so definitely check them out. If you use my code HamiltonTrained, it's gonna save you like 20% at checkout, but either go to flexpromeals.com or go check them out in the podcast description.
0:03:13.8 Jared Hamilton: Sponsor number two is 1st Phorm, I'm always rocking a 1st Phorm shirt, 'cause they're comfy, but 1st Phorm guys, you have to understand, like I've talked about before is when it comes to supplements, they are not the end all, be all. They're called supplements for a reason, they're meant to supplement the gaps you are not getting with food. So if you're hitting all your protein in a really simple way, if you don't have digestion issues, if you're getting all of your vitamins from like so many servings of fruits and vegetables every single day. Cool, you probably don't need them. But very few people are actually doing that. Most people... Like looking at our clients, most people struggle getting their protein in without going over on their calories, most people are not eating the fruits and vegetables they should, so they're not getting the micro-nutrients they need. Most people are not having the inflammation properties of Omega's because they're not eating enough fish during the week, things like that, so it's just one of those things, it helps fills the gaps to get you to your results better, faster in a more sustainable way.
0:04:09.2 Jared Hamilton: Now, the thing is though, I want you to... I would basically wanna make sure you don't waste your money by just hopping on Amazon or going to yahoosupplements.com, I don't know if that's a real website, just whatever, trying to find what's cheapest and the most tolerable to taste. I just don't like the idea of going about that because you're gonna end up for most of the time getting products that are not going to be as helpful, that are cheaply made, that arguably aren't even made by a real company, they're made in someone's basement. I just wanna make sure your money is going to the products that are actually going to help you and the highest quality stuff you can get, so which is why that we partnered with 1st Phorm.
0:04:44.7 Jared Hamilton: So definitely go check out the link below and just start looking around their website. If you're not quite sure where to start with supplements, I have a video below, my supplement video on like kinda where to go, where to start with that stuff, but definitely check out what they have going on, and I think you'll be surprised. And then 1st Phorm even has the most dope return policy, like it's 110% money back guarantee. So if you don't like their shit or you don't like the way it tastes, you'll actually make money by returning it, it's crazy. But that's how good they are. But that's it. Be sure... Also, if you have not checked out the podcast website, dietingfromtheinsideout.com, you will have all these episodes including this one with the actual blog fashion, so it's written if you'd rather read through the interview as well, so check that out. Otherwise, I will be quiet now, and we'll hear from Caroline and I'll talk to you in just a second. What's up? What's up Caroline?
0:05:35.4 Caroline: Nothing much.
0:05:36.8 Jared Hamilton: How are you?
0:05:37.5 Caroline: I'm good.
0:05:39.7 Jared Hamilton: Good.
0:05:39.7 Caroline: It's been 10 years.
0:05:43.3 Jared Hamilton: Ten years. For those that...
0:05:43.4 Caroline: That's how it feels.
0:05:44.5 Jared Hamilton: So for those that don't know, Caroline's actually been on the team for a minute, but scheduling just has not worked out to get a podcast together, but we made it happen, and of course it's when you moved across the country, like the one opportunity we could have done it like in the same room.
0:06:00.0 Caroline: Yeah. I think we had two scheduled and both of them fell through, one of them was with a client, one of them was just us, but we made it.
0:06:07.8 Jared Hamilton: Either way, better late than never. No, it's good. I didn't notice until you mentioned it, we do straight up match.
0:06:13.3 Caroline: Yours is like a little darker, but it works.
0:06:16.0 Jared Hamilton: I'm half color blind, so I don't know. So if those that are listening aren't watching the YouTube, then you should go to the YouTube and watch it to see how much we match, but anyway, cool. Well, Caroline, before we get into all of this... All the stuff to get a little more tactical around the stuff to help people. I think it's really important for people to understand who Caroline is and stuff like that. So give a little bit of a background on who you are and your story, and then we'll just see where the conversation goes.
0:06:45.4 Caroline: Okay. Let's see, who am I?
0:06:47.6 Jared Hamilton: Who is Caroline?
0:06:49.5 Caroline: Yeah, so I am a dietitian. I don't even know where to start. I'll start with kind of my story. Does that work?
0:06:57.3 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:06:57.6 Caroline: Feel like that's a good...
0:07:00.2 Jared Hamilton: How you even got into this stuff.
0:07:00.7 Caroline: Okay, I don't even know if you know this Jared, but...
0:07:03.0 Jared Hamilton: Let's... I love learning new things, so let's hear it.
0:07:04.8 Caroline: I don't think we really got into some of my history when I was interviewing to work with you. So basically, it all kind of started around high school, which I feel like a lot of people probably could relate to because that's where they body image type, you're super worried about what other people think of you, probably more than what you think of yourself, but I felt like I just didn't feel comfortable in my skin at all. Looking back, it's one of those things where I was totally normal, totally normal, healthy body size, but I was comparing myself to all my teeny tiny friends, and I was very uncomfortable with what I looked like and I just kind of dealt with it. I did all the different things, like I bought those... What do you call? Like Raspberry Ketone pills.
0:07:50.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. I used to sell those when I was at GNC.
0:07:51.1 Caroline: Oh my gosh.
0:07:53.8 Jared Hamilton: I was that Chad, yeah.
0:07:56.3 Caroline: Yeah, and they're basically just appetite suppressants, they don't... They kill your appetite, which is really sad when you think about it, but I tried all the different stuff. I googled "how to lose 10 pounds in two weeks?" which is really sad as a teenager and as a kid, thinking back to that, but I just... I didn't wanna look like myself anymore. And then I went to college and I was like. "I'm gonna make... I'm gonna be different, I'm actually gonna lose the weight, I'm gonna change things, I want to reinvent myself." So I went kind of even more extreme and I kinda had a better understanding of calories and I knew I needed to cut calories to lose weight and get in the gym. And so I went to the gym every single day. It was a very unhealthy relationship with it. I went to the gym every single day.
0:08:41.4 Caroline: I remember puking at the gym 'cause I was working too hard and I didn't tell a soul. I didn't tell my roommate who was like still one of my best friends. I was working way too hard, and I was googling "What's the lowest calorie foods that you can do?" I was eating a salad pretty much for every single meal, and I definitely lost some weight, but very, very disordered eating. I don't know if it was like an actual eating disorder. I don't really know where it would fall into that, but I definitely... It was very disordered and...
0:09:12.9 Jared Hamilton: It was disordered styles and patterns of eating for sure.
0:09:15.7 Caroline: Yes, yes. Like the way, my relationship with food was horrible. I viewed everything by calories, my relationship with exercise was horrible. Yeah, just a very dark time. I remember like I would keep saltines under my bed, so that always when I would get a little hungry, I would have a saltine 'cause it was so low calorie. But it was enough to keep me going. And of course, my anxiety was horrible at this time. A lot of the times those go very hand-in hand. But yeah, that was the beginning of college. And then I was studying to be a PA, so I was kind of on the pre-med route, and then I decided to take a nutrition course as just an elective, 'cause you had to take random electives, and it changed my world, learning all about nutrients and how our body, we literally need them, like our body is designed to have protein, fats, carbohydrates like sugar, we need all of that. It totally rocked my world, and in the best way possible, 'cause I know some people think like, you learn more about food and you kinda go the opposite route, but mine was the other way.
0:10:27.6 Caroline: I knew I needed all this food, so it just slowly improved my relationship with food, what I knew I needed, all of that stuff. So it was really cool because I knew that I needed to change something. So then I switched my entire major to nutrition and I was like "We're gonna do this." 'Cause I wanted to help anybody else who had ever felt like that before, 'cause when I think about it, looking back on it, you just feel so trapped in this world by yourself, and you just think like, you just wanna do everything in your power to change your body. And that's just not the way to do it.
0:11:03.6 Jared Hamilton: Sure, that's huge. One, I didn't know any of that, and I love all of that though, just because it coincides even more with our mission from like... With 180 Impact, with dieting people from the inside out, fixing all these fucked up psychological relationships and stuff, but because you've been there, there's a level of relatability that you can relate, it's like "No, I know what it's like to hate everything about yourself and willing to do stupid shit to get on the other side."
0:11:30.6 Caroline: Yeah.
0:11:31.1 Jared Hamilton: But for those that are listening, understand that Caroline's a registered dietitian, which means she is more qualified with this stuff from an education standpoint than any "nutritionist," any bullshit certification. We were actually off-camera talking about how some people get like... I call them certification beat offs, where every now and then I'll get someone who's like "Well, what are your certifications?" And what most people don't know, even like with me, I've got a shit ton, but the thing is most people asking, have no idea, you can go online and get a bullshit certification to meet whatever criteria for $25. I could be like "Yeah, I'm ABC certified," because it sounds cool. Anyone goes "Oh, that's dope, but it's worthless." But when it gets into the world of dietetics where you're a registered dietitian, that's a pretty big boy credential, that's not a certification, that's like a multiple-year degree. I think there's a board certification process versus... It's the board's, not like this bullshit, it's not like a NASM certification. Well, actually, you know it better than I do. Talk about that, how big of a deal being a registered dietitian is over a nutritionist.
0:12:48.7 Caroline: Yeah, no, that's a really good question and a lot of people, sometimes when I tell people I'm a dietitian, they're like, "What does that even mean?" 'Cause they're so used to hearing...
0:12:54.8 Jared Hamilton: You're also so young too.
0:12:56.1 Caroline: That's true.
0:12:57.6 Jared Hamilton: And I know you get flak for that. They're like, "How are you this young?" But you're more credentialed education-wise than most people.
0:13:03.6 Caroline: Yeah, yeah, no, but it's a really good question. So the big difference between nutritionists and dietitians is that a nutritionist, literally anyone can say they're a nutritionist, so no one needs... You can get certifications, but you could just literally say, like I always give example of my husband, like he could just say he's a nutritionist, you don't need a certification, you don't need to pass a test. There are certain... There are other levels of things, like there are some really solid classes and there's some that are, like I would tell anyone to stay away from because they're teaching you some real messed up stuff.
0:13:37.6 Jared Hamilton: You can drop any info, you can literally say, avoid this, avoid this, avoid, yeah.
0:13:42.2 Caroline: No, I honestly, I'm trying to think if I can think any. I haven't seen any... Not off the top of my head. Things are getting better. I'll just say that.
0:13:55.6 Jared Hamilton: Okay.
0:13:56.3 Caroline: But because there's so much stuff on the internet now, which is good and bad, so it's like, a lot of times people get called out for their BS now because there's just so much research that's accessible to a lot of people, but to be a dietitian, yeah, you have to get a four-year degree. You can get it in exercise science or dietetics or something related to it, you can even be pre-med if you want, and then you have to do an internship, and I like to call that a residency, 'cause an internship sounds something like, it's super fun and you get paid for it and all that stuff, and that's not what it is.
0:14:25.4 Jared Hamilton: "I'm a Camp Counselor, it's my internship."
0:14:26.0 Caroline: Yeah, exactly. So I don't like the term internship, but some people's internships last like a year to two years. It just kind of depends on how you do it. Mine was just shy of a year, but it's really freaking intense, you have to do food service, you have to do like the medical side of things, and you have to do community. And mine was very big on the medical side, and I did mine smack-dab in the middle of COVID, so I was working on all the feeding tubes with people who were in the ICU, and it's very, very heavy stuff. So that was really tough. Really tough mentally. And then you have to sit for a board's exam and you have to do all that stuff before. And the board's exam was... I was sweating bullets. It is so intense. Where I took it, they scan your hand, like you have to be who you say you are, you have to go through so much proof, like they were checking behind the ears, they're checking in your pockets. It was super legit. But now in 2024, so just a year, you have to have your Master's. I just went ahead and got my Master's just 'cause I wanted to be ahead of the curve, but there's so much schooling that goes into it, and it's good because it's legit stuff, and food is powerful and all of that, but that's a big difference is, that is all required to be a dietitian, and now a nutritionist, you could do a two-year program and it could be great but...
0:15:44.6 Jared Hamilton: You don't even have to... That's what's crazy. For those listening, you don't even have to go to school. And that's the thing is, in the world of certifications and all this, it's pretty... Half of it's a scam. Half of it's complete bullshit, which is why I wanted to... Why I was so excited whenever Caroline applied to work with us and be part of the team and start helping coach people is because being a registered dietitian for those that don't know is like we're talking about is a... It's like, I'm just gonna sound weird, it's a pretty big dick move, it's like daddy energy just dropped into the room.
0:16:16.7 Caroline: And I was like, I'm gonna send it, I'm just gonna take the biggest thing I can.
0:16:21.6 Jared Hamilton: And that's the thing is, in a world of fake people who are just full of shit and stuff, it's one of those things where I always joke "My mail man can call himself a nutritionist because he looked at an apple." He's like, "I'm a nutritionist, it's someone who looks at nutrition." But not to say that someone has to have an RD credential to be intelligent.
0:16:40.1 Caroline: Yeah, for sure.
0:16:41.3 Jared Hamilton: But for those that don't know, like with what we're gonna get into to help you guys with Caroline's education around this is like some of the highest you can get in the world of this stuff.
0:16:53.7 Caroline: Another big difference too, is that I am held to a like standard. I have to keep up my education, and I have an ethics board that people can come after you if you say something that's not scientifically right, whereas the other sense, nutritionists, they can kinda say whatever they want and get away with it, so it's kind of scary.
0:17:13.0 Jared Hamilton: It's dope.
0:17:14.9 Caroline: Because there are so many people that you can hurt, that's giving wrong information to people, so that's a big difference too. So a lot of the times, obviously, there's all kinds of people out there, and I'm sure there's dietitians that say some wack things, but I would say most times like, you have to go through so much schooling to get there.
0:17:36.1 Jared Hamilton: For sure. And that's the thing, even like when... Yeah, absolutely. We never wanna overstep any grounds or anything like that. But here's what's interesting, Caroline, 'cause I think I told you this on your interview, I feel like 10 years ago, it wasn't that long ago, but is I don't get along with a lot of dietitians.
0:17:54.6 Caroline: Yes.
0:17:55.2 Jared Hamilton: Like one of my good friends is a dietitian who's been on the show several times, my buddy Matt, but otherwise, I don't... It makes me wonder if I'm just an asshole 'cause I don't get along with a lot of dietitians. They're like scared of protein powder, they talk about carbs being bad and avoid sugar, but drink your body weight in milk, but then avoid Gatorade. And it's some really weird off-the-wall shit. So for you, why did you think... Is it just like anything else where why some dietitians are great and some are degenerates? Is it why any other industry or is there anything industry-wide you think that's different?
0:18:28.1 Caroline: I think it really goes back to the schooling and it's people being afraid to get out of the system, because the thing with school and universities and degrees is you learn a lot, and yes, that can be super applicable and it's super helpful, but then there's also the real world. There's people dealing with stuff that you don't learn in school. And so you have to be able to see those differences and it did take me a minute. Once I got out of school, I was very by the book. I wanna do all how I was taught, but then you look back and you talk to people and you talk to clients and you're like, "Okay, this is very different than we learned, it's not textbook by any means." And you have to just... Not that...
0:19:03.0 Caroline: You still wanna do things in a very healthy way, but it's like you kinda have to get creative and look at things a little bit differently. So there's times, I had a good friend the other day ask me, "What's the difference between like... Or what's something that you saw in school that you thought or you think is very different now?" And it's honestly the way we do calorie deficits. I learned in school that to just give... If someone needs to lose 30 pounds, give them a 1200 to 1400 calorie diet, and now it's like, I would never in a million years do that, but that was just kind of like... That was the system, and I'm sure there's a lot of systems that are needed and important, but that's just a good example of that's what I learned, but I would never, never do that now.
0:19:47.5 Jared Hamilton: Well, this is one of those things too though, where I love that you said that because for those listening, this is one of the traits of a really skilled coach, is someone who can think critically for themselves along those lines, like when to get away from the book, like yeah, that was by the book, but it's not appropriate because people are more than black letters on white paper. You know what I mean? We're not robots, we're more than calories and workout, this is why we talk about... Caroline just mentioned relationship with food, relationship with exercise, over-training, those things matter, and it takes a really skilled coach to have the levels of critical thinking to know when to lean in, when to lean out, when to go a little bit more by the book, when that's not appropriate to the person in front of us, so I love that you said that. That's huge.
0:20:36.5 Jared Hamilton: So for you, is this where really... 'Cause I feel like you're the queen of simplicity, it's why... It was such a no-brainer when you decided to come join the team is because I feel you out the gate mesh so well with our systems and our core values and how we coach, it was seamless, but is this where it all came from? Like when you said you used to be this crazy maniac in the gym and crazy stuff on that from before you knew better, but now that you know better, is this what was the catalyst to like, "Nope, let's go slow. Let's go simple. Let's make this really practical." Is that what catapulted this side of you?
0:21:13.0 Caroline: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. Yeah, it's definitely based off of what I went through, of course. I kind of find myself in this really small niche or niche, however you wanna say it, and there's probably other people out there too, but I don't see it as much, but it's one of those things where I... So I wanted to lose weight and I was very extreme with things, but then I also flipped it one sense and was like, "No one should try to lose weight. It's not good for you. Everything needs to be intuitive." And now I kind of find myself in this happy medium where I'm like, "You can lose weight if you want to because it's your body, you can do what you want with it, and it can be very healthy, but now to do it in a healthier way." So I kind of swung both ways. And then now I'm kind of in that middle where I'm like, "I wanna help people do it in a very healthy way," so the opposite, literally the opposite of what I did, but I also believe that you can change things, that you can feel better, you can feel more comfortable in your skin, so kind of a weirdo.
0:22:12.4 Jared Hamilton: I think the... No, I love it and I agree, 'cause I feel like I'm the same way. Again, which is why this meshed so well from the beginning, because I feel like, this may not be the most popular thing, I feel like to achieve levels of balance, you almost have to have awareness around the extremes, you know what I mean? Where you went from the one extreme of crazy psychopath diet culture, almost disordered eating patterns, then you swung the other way of like, "No, you don't need to lose weight and totally intuitive." And then now you're at this middle ground, and I feel like that's how it happens, you'll see someone go from being like a body builder, crazy diet culture, nut job, to the other extreme of like, "I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna go blow out everything." And then they... Then because you know where the boundaries are, now it's easy to find this kind of middle ground.
0:23:00.3 Caroline: Yeah, yeah, and I would say that it partially had to do with where I fell in with school, 'cause in school, I wasn't super healthy in the beginning, and then when I came out of school, it was very like... Some of the movements were very just like, "Love your body, but don't change it, don't try to change it, 'cause you should just be happy with where you're at." And then I kind of came out of it, I guess, like a year. I'm not really sure time-wise what went into it, but it felt very quickly, like I went from one extreme to the other to now, I think I found a happy medium, and I love it because I feel like I have found my purpose with it, and I know what I believe, why I believe and I've seen so many people now have such amazing success with it to where they feel like that they can hit their goals, but they're also not ruled by it, and they don't wake up every day thinking about like, "I have to eat as little as possible." So it's a very, very happy medium, I should say.
0:23:57.3 Jared Hamilton: Well, and that's how it should be. I think that balance and harmony dichotomy, which is again why this has worked so well since day one. So from your perspective just to get everything across well for those that are still living in the 1960s with their nutrition, I would love to hear you touch on your perspective, now that everyone knows that you have all the education and all those things, why we need carbs, why we need to eat more. Those are the two... I'm shocked I still get those every day in my DMs, that people are still scared to eat carbs and they're scared shitless to eat more, or do a reverse diet, diet break, maintenance period, whatever you wanna call it. And even in the coaching program, we do this every day, people... Very few people go right into fat loss unless they're eating like 8000 calories a day, we always have to get that built up, but why is that so important and why should people not worry about getting fat from it?
0:24:54.0 Caroline: Yeah, that's a good question. So there's a couple of ways I could go from. I would say from a scientific point of view, like once I learned how cells actually work in our body, that's what changed everything for me, like every single cell needs glucose, like the way that it takes in energy and it uses to allow you to breathe, allow you to walk, allow your brain to function. So when I learned that specifically, it was very mind-blowing, 'cause I'm like, "Wow, I actually need sugar." Because at the end of it, like sugar all breaks down to glucose, so whether you get that from cake or whether you get that from things like strawberries, obviously there's some differences in there as far as nutrients go, but once I learned kind of that scientific aspect of it, I was like, "This is a game changer."
0:25:36.6 Caroline: Because this is what everyone needs to know, you are designed... I forget who said this, so who to give credit for. But if we were meant to make our own food like plants like photosynthesis, then we would do that, but we don't. We need to take in food, that's why there's macro nutrients, everything serves a purpose in our body, and we don't create our food, we need it to live. And I always tell clients too, "We have taste buds for a reason." Where you believe that comes from, we are meant to enjoy food or else we would just eat tasteless nothing every day. So it's kind of a good scientific mix of like, "We were designed to eat things to sustain life and we're also meant to enjoy them," I believe at least.
0:26:19.2 Jared Hamilton: I agree with you. I have a really fucked up analogy that's really inappropriate, but because it's me, I'm gonna say it anyway. It's why I tell... I always joke that when people... When girls call guys pigs because guys are, all they want is sex, we don't have an organ that's specifically only for pleasure, girls do. It's like the clitoris is only for pleasure, that doesn't do anything else, you can get pregnant without nutting for a girl, but the girls have an organ that is only for pleasure, but this is why I haven't used that analogy in a while with, if you weren't supposed to enjoy food, you wouldn't have taste buds, I love it, and I haven't used it in a really long time.
0:26:55.4 Caroline: I say probably every day, and my clients probably hate me because of it.
0:27:00.4 Jared Hamilton: Well, so here's one I'd love for you to touch on. And this is one of my pet peeves. I fucking hate it because right around this part in the conversation, a lot of professionals say, the argument is like, "Well, carbs aren't essential so we don't need them." I have a whole another argument for that, but what are your thoughts when someone says, "Well, yeah, but we don't need carbs because they're not essential?"
0:27:24.4 Caroline: That's a good question. So like I was saying earlier, carbs break down to glucose, right? And what runs on glucose? Your muscles. In order to move, you need glucose, that's what fuels them, and your brain also runs on carbs too, so it's usually what I do a lot of the times when people bring those up, obviously, I want them to feel heard, I understand that it's scary and we've been taught these really messed up things by diet culture, that carbs make you fat and things like that, but then when I love to explain some of the science because I think that's what takes some of the emotion out of it, you just realise...
0:27:57.6 Jared Hamilton: It does.
0:28:00.2 Caroline: Okay. This is what... This is how we are designed as humans and how our body operates, therefore, this is what I need. Yes, there are certain things that you can do to hit those goals that you want, and there's a way that you can change kind of your macros and things like that, but when it comes down to the science, that's why... Why do you think when people go on a keto diet, they get the keto flu? Like that is so messed up that you literally get sick off of a diet, that is so messed up, and I understand anyone who's tried it because it is very convincing, like I've tried it myself in college, but that is so messed up in itself that you get sick. I could talk about that forever, but yeah, as far as carbs go, I think... And you could say... You could do that with really any nutrient, when it boils down to it, I think the science is super powerful because it's very just like black and white.
0:28:53.5 Jared Hamilton: Well, here's my thing, when someone... This is why I hate the argument when people say, "Well, carbs aren't essential for survival." And that's the problem, when they say carbs aren't essential, I go, 'cause they're talking about for survival, but imagine if we did that through the lens of everything. There's a lot of things that aren't essential for survival, I know people without legs, because they're not essential for survival, we don't need two kidneys, we don't need eye sight. Every person I know who says carbs aren't essential, they have TVs in their house, they have air conditioning, they have paint on their walls, they have things that make their house feel like a home, they have dogs, all these things, those aren't essential for survival, but just because something isn't essential for survival, doesn't mean it's not okay to have it and enjoy it because it makes the quality of your life better.
0:29:39.6 Caroline: Absolutely, yeah. For sure. Your body can... That's what's really cool about our bodies 'cause it can make sugar, the way that it breaks things down, it can make glucose and kinda...
0:29:47.3 Jared Hamilton: Right. Out of protein...
0:29:48.3 Caroline: And do that too. And do what? What'd you say?
0:29:50.7 Jared Hamilton: I said like, it's why when people tell me that sugar is bad and they just eat all protein, I'm like, "Do you realize your body can turn protein into glucose?"
0:30:00.3 Caroline: Yeah, and you don't want it to do that. That is not optimal.
0:30:02.3 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, you don't, no, it's not a good idea.
0:30:04.0 Caroline: But you don't want it to break down your muscles into sugar, but yeah. So can you create it? Absolutely, but do you want to do that? Does it make you feel good? No, generally no. It's not optimal. That's a big difference is, can you do it? Yes. But is it healthy for you? Probably not.
0:30:22.1 Jared Hamilton: Now, I'd love to hear... Let me hear you touch on this then, so the idea of... Like you said, when you were starting out before you knew better, you were just trying to eat as little as possible to make this happen, but now the way that we coach, our philosophy is let's see how much you can get away with eating while still reaching your goals. Why is it important to eat as much as you can while losing weight versus eating as little as possible?
0:30:44.1 Caroline: Because that's what's gonna make it sustainable, as simple as it is, that's... Like no one likes to be starving, right? That is a very miserable way to lose weight, and it doesn't last. Yes, you could probably eat a 1200 calorie diet for some time. I mean, everyone's different, some people can do it for a month, some people could do it for a year, but is that what you wanna be doing for the rest of your life? Chances are no. So at the end of the day, it's like you kinda have to pick what you want, what you want your quality of life to be, so if you wanna do that forever, sure, go for it, but you probably will be miserable, you'll probably be hangry, you'll probably be tired, you're probably gonna have no sex drive, like you're probably gonna have brain fog, but yeah, I kind of forgot what the question was.
0:31:31.4 Jared Hamilton: No, to piggyback on that though. And then all of a sudden, no one's will power is that strong. We need will power the most and we have it the least. And if someone goes "No, I wanna lose weight that bad, I'm willing to suffer and deprive and starve and have the worst quality of life ever," everyone breaks, you're not fucking superhuman. Everyone's gonna go do that for six months and go "It's not worth it." So even from a fat loss perspective, it is not a good idea, even if you can lose more weight now, it's just a terrible idea.
0:32:03.7 Caroline: Yeah, there's two sides of that too, scientifically, like I was saying earlier, it is hard on your metabolism, you're not gonna have energy, it affects those, but then it also, there's an emotional side of it, where do you feel like you can go out to dinner with your friends, do you feel like you can have a glass of wine or do you feel like you can only eat once a day? So there's two sides to it, there's how it affects your body, and then also how it affects your mental health.
0:32:28.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, I just actually, ironically, and I know it'll be different at the time of this being published, but I just got off a call like an hour ago, right before this, with someone who I just accepted into coaching, and I was asking her this question 'cause she struggled with all the same things. I won't mention her. But I said "What's this costing you in your life right now?" And she rattled off everything important to her. She goes "I can't go out with my friends. I'm depressed all the time. I hate the way I feel, I'm avoiding pictures," which means you're avoiding the experiences that make people wanna take the pictures. And all these things she rattled off, she's like "I can't go on date night, I can't do anything." And I said, so it sounds like this is costing you everything life is about. I would argue life... If someone would say "What's life about?" Is experiences. I know everyone's belief systems are different, but at the end of the day, we all want to have experiences in our life, whether that be family, friends, trips, travel, nice things, happiness in general is an experience. But if everything you love and cherish the most, you can't get those experiences and it's costing you those, well, then you being trapped by this and by diet culture and all this bullshit is literally costing you your quality of life, and we are just a flash in the pan in terms of our lives here on earth, here for 70-90 years and blah. You know what I mean? So yeah.
0:33:47.3 Caroline: And why would you not want to eat as much as possible and still lose weight other than it not being fast? That to me sounds like the best thing ever, right? Hitting your goals while still being able to eat with your friends and go out on date night and enjoy cake on your birthday.
0:34:06.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, I think a conversation I know I've had with clients before, and I think the rest of the team has as well, is there's this level of giving yourself permission to let it be slow, we all have this inherent... I have to do it fast because of diet culture and being targeted with Facebook ads and the magazines, at the checkout at Walmart and all these things, and we have this inherent like speed. But I think a big piece of this is, if you're struggling, you need to give yourself permission like "Hey, it's okay to take a little bit longer and enjoy the ride." Actually, this was something that I got from my mentor, 'cause a lot of the strategies to be successful in weight loss, is to be successful in business or any success area, and I asked him, I go "Where is the line?" I go, I said, we listened to this one person on how to be successful, and he goes "Live like you're poor, eat ramen every day, even if you have a million dollars in your bank account so you can re-invest all of it." And that's what he did, he was literally making millions of dollars a month, and he was living in a house with six other dudes eating ramen, living like he... Living off of like 10 grand a year while he was a millionaire.
0:35:08.5 Jared Hamilton: And I asked my mentor and I said "How do you feel about that?" He goes "He's right, that's how you get wealthy as fast as possible." And I said "You just bought a McLaren and have like $150,000 in watches and bought your third house. So where is that for you?" And he goes—because my mentor is astronomically successful—and he said... This was a pivotal moment for me. He said "I'm okay taking a little bit longer, enjoying the ride more."
0:35:34.4 Caroline: I love that.
0:35:35.4 Jared Hamilton: That was a really big defining moment for me because I was in that place of like I have to deprive as much as I can to get to this result as fast as possible, but then it hit me in that moment, I go I think I am okay taking a little bit longer, like a couple of years longer, but to enjoy the ride so much more. And I think it's the same thing here in weight loss is when whoever is listening to this is 90, they're not gonna care whether it took them six months or 12 months or 12 months or 18 months, what you are gonna care is you didn't do this back and forth 'til you are 90.
0:36:06.1 Caroline: Yeah. Absolutely. That's huge.
0:36:07.9 Jared Hamilton: Why do you think people do that? Why do you think people are in such a rush?
0:36:10.0 Caroline: I think to me it's pretty black and white. People just don't want to wait. They genuinely just want to show up a month later and be 100 less pounds, they just want it be overnight, just a really quick fix, because it takes hard freaking work, people don't wanna put in the work, they want the result, but they don't wanna put in... Or they're scared too. It is really scary. The whole process is scary, working on yourself is the foundation of our program, finding and dealing with those feelings is really hard and scary, dealing with all of your inner child work, and maybe just something I've been talking about with clients recently too, is just family things, like family things that you grew up with, that your parents would say to you, society would tell you, maybe it was your friends at school, maybe you got bullied for something, you have to deal with all of that if you actually want to fix all the other stuff. I think some people just don't wanna do it. And I understand it. So it always comes from a place of understanding, like I understand that they're scared of it, but at what point do you actually want change.
0:37:23.0 Jared Hamilton: This is the epitome of why the magic is dieting from the inside out. For those listening, think about all the shit Caroline just said. She didn't once mention calories. She didn't once mention workouts, but she's talking about your relationship with food. Being bullied as a kid, your parents teaching you when you were a little around like the one I hear the most is mom took me to my first Weight Watchers meeting at 11, like shit like that, this is what we have to unpack to really get on the other side. Again, I had that same call that I was talking about about earlier. I asked this woman, I said, 'cause she had 50 pounds to lose, and I said "If I could snap my fingers and the weight came off, would you be good? Would it stay off?" And she went "No."
0:38:02.3 Caroline: Yeah.
0:38:03.5 Jared Hamilton: And it's because of all this other shit. So my thing is, instead of white knuckling through weight loss, why don't we just fix all this other shit, and then weight loss happens as kind of a byproduct.
0:38:13.4 Caroline: One hundred percent. Yeah. Well, I think it's just scary. I mean, dealing with emotions and your inner child is hard, but once you do it, it's just... It's beautiful how it can bleed into other things, so even not just weight loss or not just some of those... Yeah, body image and things like that, it can bleed into... Ashley's talked about it a lot, just like the relationship with her husband and things, so it's crazy how much it turns into. I have one of my clients who's a college student, we talked about working on your mindset and things as far as nutrition and fitness, and she's like, it's helped me become a better student. The way that it bleeds into other things is just buck wild and it's super cool, but it's just things you would never think of, so it's really cool when that happens, but...
0:39:05.5 Jared Hamilton: Well, it's because, everyone listening, you're the foundation of everything in your life. You're the foundation of your marriage, you're the foundation of the college student's case, her school, you're the foundation of your household energy, you're the foundation of your work, we are the foundation of everything we touch. So when we improve us by 20%, everything else gets improved by 20%, let alone astronomically more. I've always said, I've said it for years, if you stay the same you and only lose weight, you did it wrong. But when you lose weight because you're literally becoming a different person at a character trait level, everything in your life changes and you lose some weight along the way, it's the coolest thing ever.
0:39:48.2 Caroline: Yeah, it's like a weird byproduct. And then people join the program to lose weight, but then afterwards they're like, "Oh, all this happened, my relationship with food is better, my relationship with family is better. Oh yeah, and I kinda lost some weight," it's just like it totally shifts priorities. Not that that still can't be a priority. It's cool when you hit your goals and things like that, but it's just very different how people's mindsets shift.
0:40:13.8 Jared Hamilton: Well, it becomes... It's one of the first influences I had in the success world, his name is Bob Proctor. He goes "The results should never be the goal, the result should be a side effect of the goal of you becoming a different version of yourself." Identity 101. So it's why when people say "How do I lose weight?" That's wrong. It's who do I have to become who loses weight? And it's an identity shift, because when you become a different quality and a different level person, you get what they get. Imagine... I gave an example in an email I wrote today of a kid who wants to be an All Star football player, but he says "I wanna be an All Star," but he skips practice, he doesn't workout, he doesn't watch film, it's like he's not doing the things All Star players do. But if he said "Who do I have to become who's an All Star?" Well, I have to become a person who watches film. I have to become a person who shows up, who's the first on the field last to leave, and then when you shift your identity, the actions take care of themselves and the results are a side effect, and that's how we create permanent change.
0:41:10.9 Caroline: Absolutely, yeah. And it's the small things that you do every day.
0:41:13.4 Jared Hamilton: Yeah.
0:41:14.1 Caroline: I'll preach habits until I die.
0:41:16.6 Jared Hamilton: Okay. So along those lines, what do you think are some of the components for having habit stick? Because everyone's like "I wanna start getting up early" and they don't, or "I wanna start getting my workout in or tracking my calories or walking more," whatever. Because you're the habit queen. How do you... Let me take a step back. What are some of the traits and strategies you have for keeping habits to stick? I butchered how I worded that and you get what I'm saying. I literally butchered the fuck out of that. Like third grade English over here. What the fuck is wrong with me.
0:41:47.2 Caroline: That happens to me on client calls all the time. You're thinking ahead of you speaking, so then you can't form the words, but... Yeah, no, really good question. I think it's, one, delayed gratification, 'cause it's like you're not gonna just become that person overnight, and just knowing that and accepting it is literally step one. You have to know that you're not gonna wake up, maybe you wake up at 11:00 AM and you want to wake up at 5:30, you wanna become one of those crazy 5:30 in the morning people. And just knowing that you're not gonna do that, I think is just literally the first step, just accepting that is not gonna happen. Can you do it once? Absolutely. You could wake up the next day. Will you probably be miserable, yes, because anyone who changes that drastic of a habit really quickly is probably not gonna enjoy it, but... So accepting that, I think, is the first step. And then being willing to make very, very small steps closer to that goal, so you still have that goal, but what are the small little daily things that you can do to get you there?
0:42:46.7 Caroline: So, even if you wake up 15 minutes earlier every day, that is the most... That is the tiniest thing, I guess you could do five minutes, but that probably is not realistic, but 15-30 minutes earlier. Maybe you do that for a month. So being okay with that, I think is huge. Being okay with those very small steps, but it's amazing how much you can actually change by taking those small little changes and how much they add up in just big picture at the end of the maybe six months or a year, but yeah, that's the first step.
0:43:19.4 Jared Hamilton: Okay, I love that, and I agree with you. Usually right about now, the question that pops up out of a trigger for most people is, they don't think it's big, and they're like "No, no, no, I have to make it bigger, I have to... That's gonna take too long. It's not enough." That's usually what comes up right about now is when people go "It's not enough." So I know my opinion on it, but I'm curious what would your response be?
0:43:43.0 Caroline: I feel like that's kind of some of that tough love where you have to say...
0:43:46.6 Jared Hamilton: Yeah.
0:43:48.9 Caroline: Well, how bad do you want it? How bad do you want it to stick? Because yeah, like I said, you could do it maybe for a week, you could wake up at 5:30, but do you really think that that's gonna last you the rest of your life? Generally, no, that sounds miserable to me, and I'm a morning person.
0:44:06.0 Jared Hamilton: Right.
0:44:06.2 Caroline: So, it's like, do you actually want it to be permanent in your life? I think that's a really hard question to answer because people wanna say yes, but... Do you think that that's realistic? I would say most people, if they're truly honest with their self, they would say, no, I know I'm not gonna do that, like, yes, I can set the goal, but I know I'm not gonna do that. Now, do I know I can wake up a half an hour early? Absolutely. That I know I can do. But the rest of it, I don't know.
0:44:35.3 Jared Hamilton: Well, my thought is, if someone can't do something small, how the hell could they do something big? Like...
0:44:40.1 Caroline: Yes, that's a good one.
0:44:40.2 Jared Hamilton: Like in the getting up earlier analogy, you're like, you say "Just wake up 30 minutes early," and they're like "No, I gotta wake up three hours early." It's like "Bro, you can't do 30 minutes. How the fuck do you think you're gonna wake up three hours?" Or in weight loss, the biggest one that gets me is when someone's adherence sucks on a simple plan, they want to naturally make it more. It's like they can't get to the gym three days a week. They're like "I obviously don't want it bad enough. Let's go five." I'm like "Woah, Karen, let's slow down." Or if someone can't adhere to, let's say 1800 calories, they're like "Oh, 1200." I go "Bro, wait a second."
0:45:12.8 Caroline: Yes.
0:45:13.3 Jared Hamilton: We're going this the wrong way.
0:45:15.6 Caroline: One hundred percent. And that's the same too with all the habits you wanna change. So say you wanna change how much you eat, your exercise, your sleep, journaling, say you wanna change all of those things, but you can't do two of them, what makes you think you can change all of them? And that's not... I think some people get offended by that, that is not at all meant to be offensive.
0:45:35.8 Jared Hamilton: I love offending people. I love it. It tells me we're doing... To be honest, it tells us we're doing the right thing though.
0:45:41.1 Caroline: Yeah, but usually when I say that to someone, I'm like, it's just a human nature thing. Like we get overwhelmed and we quit. So I like to take some of the emotion out of it, 'cause I'm like, it is just, if you can do this for a month, two months, then absolutely, let's add something on to that. But if you know that you can do this, why not just do it and prove it to yourself. That's such an amazing feeling when you do something that you set your mind to, so if you can't do those five habits, like what makes you think that you can change, or if you can't do the two habits, what makes you think you can change your whole life?
0:46:19.6 Jared Hamilton: I mentioned this on a different podcast, and then we actually ended up making a clip out of it, but who knows David might do it again, I don't know. But I was at a conference of some killer entrepreneurs, it was an entrepreneurship conference, and nothing but savages. So I was like, why the fuck was I there? But I was there anyway. Jesse Itzler was a speaker. Jesse is a psychopath. He hired David Goggins to live with him, to teach him mental toughness, like that kind of psychopath.
0:46:42.9 Caroline: Wow.
0:46:43.9 Jared Hamilton: For those listening, like Jesse built a company, sold it to Warren Buffett, built another company, sold it to Coca-Cola and runs ultra marathons and then invites guys like David Goggins to live with him, and then goes, does Wim Hof exercises with Wim Hof out in the Arctic. So, Jesse is a psychopath, but what's interesting is he... A piece at the conference he was talking about making habit stick, and mind you, he is a psychopath, so knowing those traits about Jesse, you probably think he's gonna be an extremist like "You gotta want it all or nothing, go big or go home." No, no, no. Jesse said "I'm a big fan of a habit of the month." He goes "If you have a habit of the month, you'll have 12 new habits at the end of the year." He goes, and there's 1000 people in the room, he said "Raise your hand if you've added 12 new habits to this last year." Not a hand went up. He said "Six, who's got six new habits?" Not a hand went up. "Three? Three new habits?" And a couple of hands went up, and he goes "This is the problem, because you guys go to set all these 17 habits in month one, can't do it, fall off and then you suck at life versus... "
0:47:51.7 Jared Hamilton: Can you imagine if in the coaching program, people just signed up, they just invested and were like month one, water; month two, protein and water. That's it. Month three, protein, water, calorie deficit. "I want a refund!" That's what would happen. Month four, walk. Month five, a little more protein. But you know what would happen truthfully, to be honest, that's not exactly for those that don't know how the coaching program works, but we model it similar to that, where we're not adding crazy amounts of habits, but it's not that slow and not that monotonous, but truthfully, that would generate the best results ever, by the end of a year, you would have 12 new habits that turned you into a new human, so it's the same thing in my view.
0:48:40.5 Caroline: Yeah, no, it's a really good point. Yeah, that would be... We'd cause quite a stir.
0:48:45.6 Jared Hamilton: To be honest, some people who already get upset when we don't let them change 17 new habits in the first month, and we have that come to Jesus conversation, but it's... 'Cause I'm a big expectations person, so if someone gets... For those listening, when it comes to this, it's everything about coaching's full transparency, so when someone signs up for coaching, on the call you get to ask all the questions, then upon onboarding, you get this big ass PDF that you have to read all of it. I have a giant video in there explaining. It's a huge long video for me, and you have to watch it before we even start coaching to make sure expectations are on point and you're on the same page, so people don't think we're just tricking them or whatever. But truthfully, though, I would argue if someone has an issue with it, I bet your results suck.
0:49:34.1 Caroline: Yeah.
0:49:35.3 Jared Hamilton: Right? Someone may say... We've had people who would like get... They wanna go faster, and I'm like "Bro, you weigh 100 pounds over what you want to weigh, your way obviously... This sounds bad, but it's like your way obviously isn't working, this extremism bullshit obviously isn't serving you, the all or nothing, obviously isn't the way to go for you. Why don't we do something that is proven to work for you?"
0:49:56.5 Caroline: Yeah. The results suck or they don't, they don't stick with it. They don't stay.
0:50:01.4 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. Why do you think people defend a system that's only hurt them so much? I've always wondered this when people are like "No, I'm an all or nothing person," I'm like "Bro you're still fat, like five years later, it's obviously not working, maybe we should let that go." You know, that may sound harsh. Or someone's like "No keto is it, carbs are bad." I'm like "Bro, you've been battling the same 10 pounds for 10 years, maybe carbs aren't the issue." Why do you think people do that?
0:50:28.7 Caroline: I think 'cause it's so... It sounds so simple. People are looking for an answer. They want that to be the answer. They think that they've solved the problem and found like the golden star, the key to success when you can blame something like carbs, if that was it, then it would change their whole life, so I think people really just want the very simple answer, and I don't blame them, we all want that too, but I think it's just... It's easier if carbs are to blame, if they have something to blame, I think that that's the easy way out.
0:51:05.7 Jared Hamilton: That's so good, but I think about half of the listeners just like got kicked in the stomach right now, but that's good. I love it. It goes back to when it's something else, it's not our fault because ignorance is bliss. It's like when someone says "I'm an all or nothing person," it's because you're validating your shitty behavior.
0:51:22.4 Caroline: That's why there's a new diet every year or so, because everyone's found the secret answer and it's finally, it's finally it, it's time to rock everybody's world, but it doesn't stick. I'm scared for the low protein diet, hopefully that never comes around, but we've done low carb, low fat, hopefully that doesn't happen.
0:51:44.8 Jared Hamilton: So to be honest, if you zoom out a little bit, I'm curious to your thoughts on this, any new diet that comes through is a repurposed old diet.
0:51:52.2 Caroline: Oh absolutely.
0:51:53.3 Jared Hamilton: So for example, right now it's keto, but that used to be the meat and cheese diet, or... I think what we call fasting, I could be wrong, but back in the day, it was called the warrior diet, or...
0:52:04.3 Caroline: The Atkins diet.
0:52:04.4 Jared Hamilton: Atkins is just a low carb diet or... My favorite is like Optavia is just Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem with an eating disorder.
0:52:13.7 Caroline: That one's a bad one.
0:52:16.2 Jared Hamilton: Oh my gosh, I think for those listening, Optavia is... All the trendy diets suck, I think Optavia is in the worst three.
0:52:24.7 Caroline: It's powders, right? You're eating powdered meals.
0:52:27.8 Jared Hamilton: Either that, their shitty products and their shitty food, but here's what's really fucked up, not only is... Their big selling point is eat our meals and you don't have to count anything. Well, it's because they put everyone that comes into their program at 800 calories a day.
0:52:42.6 Caroline: Yeah.
0:52:42.9 Jared Hamilton: Eat only their food and their food is fucking expensive. And it tastes like shit I'm told from everyone on the internet, but I had a client, not a client, I had a lady message me and she told me I could talk about this. Her husband is a food scientist or a food chemist who has the Optavia contract, and he says there is in their mashed potatoes, there's two potato flakes enough to legally say there's potatoes, but the rest is just trash, but he's the food chemist or the food scientist that has the Optavia contract, and the cool thing is like, I have no ties to anything, so I can talk shit all I want. But...
0:53:18.8 Caroline: I think that's the big difference too, of looking at diets, is that something you have to do for the rest of your life, like things like that, do they promise you like, oh, you're gonna do this and you're gonna be fine. I think that's what is so different with our program, and I tell people all the time like, we don't want you to be here forever, we want to provide you with the tools to then just kill it the rest of your life and help people around you and all that. But those other programs like, no offense to Weight Watchers, but you can do a lifetime program with them, that should be a huge red flag in itself. If you are on it for the rest of your life, then they're not teaching you sustainability.
0:53:58.7 Jared Hamilton: No, I got some flak because I went on this big bender of shit talking Weight Watchers, 'cause it's terrible, just 'cause you'll hear some coaches talk about how it's the closest to calorie deficit and calorie tracking, so it's fine, but they teach people to binge eat 'cause of the free food mentality. The point system does not correlate to calories at all, their weird algorithm, but then a 300-calorie muffin that is a fraction of your calorie deficit that day would take up over half your points, so you'll eat 800 calories a day and then cause a terrible relationship with food 'cause you're scared of muffins now. And it's every person that I've ever known with Weight Watchers, when they're counting points, they're good, but when they're not counting points, they gain all their way back. It's like "No, I'm back my points again," well, it's they're keeping you trapped. So...
0:54:46.2 Caroline: Yeah. And it's just like, if you really think about the points in itself, it's not at all helping you with your relationship with food. If you're thinking of things as like free points, that in itself should be a red flag 'cause you shouldn't be like "Oh, I can eat, my whole meal could be vegetables and it's zero points, therefore it's probably zero calories," and you're not truly understanding the science behind it, you're just thinking as few points as possible and then... Yeah, that does not work on your relationship with food by any means. I do think they've improved, but I think they've kind of had to because diet culture stuff calls people out now. So I do think they have improved, but there's still... Yeah, just the whole lifetime program thing a little bit.
0:55:33.4 Jared Hamilton: It's interesting to say the least, but... Alright. We'll start wrapping up a little bit. I can't believe it's been almost an hour already.
0:55:41.3 Caroline: Oh wow.
0:55:43.2 Jared Hamilton: I know it. I know it. And your apartment dude hasn't come yet, so...
0:55:48.7 Caroline: No. Worked out. I thought I was gonna get, scared the crap out of me.
0:55:53.2 Jared Hamilton: Well, we're not over yet, so who knows? So we were talking off-camera. Caroline is waiting on a maintenance service tech of some sort to... Or a delivery to come to her apartment. And apparently, she has the world's most alarm doorbell.
0:56:06.5 Caroline: They put a doorbell in an apartment complex. So I don't know if anyone out there has had that, but I thought that was so bizarre.
0:56:12.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, that's funny.
0:56:12.3 Caroline: I don't know if it's a California thing, but...
0:56:14.0 Jared Hamilton: Maybe.
0:56:15.8 Caroline: Doorbells are... Yeah, in an apartment. Who wants that? But...
0:56:18.6 Jared Hamilton: Right. That's fine.
0:56:19.4 Caroline: We're getting those electric locks that you can access with your phone. And to be honest, that sounds terrifying to me because I feel like with technology and hacking these days, no one hack into my apartment, please.
0:56:30.4 Jared Hamilton: Right. Hotels use it.
0:56:32.5 Caroline: That's true. Yeah. But that's not your place of living.
0:56:35.5 Jared Hamilton: That's true.
0:56:36.1 Caroline: Where keep all your prized possessions, but...
0:56:38.6 Jared Hamilton: Right. Right. That's funny.
0:56:40.4 Caroline: Who knows?
0:56:41.2 Jared Hamilton: Well, we won't tell Caroline's address for the stalkers...
0:56:43.1 Caroline: There you go.
0:56:44.2 Jared Hamilton: That listen to the show.
0:56:44.3 Caroline: I moved to California, so find me in the big state.
0:56:47.7 Jared Hamilton: That's right. "Bet motherfucker." So a couple last-minute questions. What is your... I love asking this. What's your favorite part about coaching? Everyone's answer is different, but what, for you, what do you love most about coaching?
0:57:00.5 Caroline: I think just... And this is gonna sound so broad, but I really think it's just helping people enjoy life and enjoy... Their quality of life just goes up because they can actually go out to eat with their friends. And like I said, have a glass of wine, enjoy cake on their birthday, go on date nights. That is what really fills my cup for me. When I see that in check-ins, I love helping people lose weight. I think it's awesome. That's just cool. It's just like you said, kind of a side effect of things. But when people are genuinely happy at the end of it, that's where I'm like, I'm crying in our last check-in because I'm so proud of them. I'm just happy that they're enjoying their life.
0:57:37.8 Jared Hamilton: Well, I think that's more of what it's about because plenty of people that, I'm sure that's listening have lost the weight, but then they've been in what I call more of a mental incarceration where they're like "Oh, I can't go have pizza with my boyfriend." "Oh, I would love to go hang out with whatever, and now I can't." Or "I wanna go on that vacation, but I'm having a panic attack on the flight because I'm afraid I'm gonna gain my weight back."
0:58:00.0 Caroline: You probably said this before too though, but when you get to the end of a client's journey with their coach, whether it's six months, 12 months, a year, if all they've done is lose weight, then we didn't do our job and what we're supposed to, 'cause that's not... I've had clients who, I was just telling someone the other day, like their goal when they started was to lose weight, but by the end, it was like that wasn't even their goal anymore. It was just to be healthier, just to be happier. So it's totally shifted their mindset.
0:58:29.1 Jared Hamilton: And then ironically they lose more weight than ever.
0:58:31.9 Caroline: Yeah. That's always the key.
0:58:33.8 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. I'm always worried people when they hear that, they're like "Oh, but I'm gonna gain all this weight." It's like, no, no, no, no. When you become, when you become a higher quality, higher energetic, higher vibrational person that has these other goals, weight loss happens as a byproduct. I get why most people are scared if they're not... Most people believe if they do not have the accelerator down on weight loss, they're gonna turn into Jabba the Hutt, right?
0:58:57.1 Caroline: Yeah.
0:59:00.6 Jared Hamilton: But it's not like that. And because then the beautiful part is when they shift that perspective and the weight comes off, it never comes back on.
0:59:05.9 Caroline: Yeah. No, that's a good side note 'cause we definitely do have people who are very successful with the weight loss for sure. But I think it just... It shifts kind of priorities and definitely the way you go about it. So someone's like... Say I wanted to lose 50 pounds and I've lost 25, which is still incredible. They're like, now I'm okay with doing that slowly. At the beginning, I didn't wanna do that slowly, but now I'm okay with it. And I see why, because I am eating as much as I can eat, I'm feeling full but I'm still seeing results.
0:59:35.6 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, when it becomes a side effect is really cool because then you're not trying. Imagine, it's like if... Those listening, if your boss just said "Hey, I want you to do this and you're gonna make a bunch of money as a side effect without even trying." So I created this guide, we'll throw it in the description since I'm bringing it up. I call it "Accidental Fat Loss" because...
0:59:53.8 Caroline: I love that.
0:59:55.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. Well, because everyone's like, I would love to lose weight on an accident. It's because it was... Is what it is. It's a guide to lose weight without tracking calories. But when you start becoming more mindful around what you're eating, put certain boundaries up in certain places and you become recognizing of your fullness cues, you're not trying to lose weight, but you put some stuff in place that made weight loss happen on an accident. That's all we're talking about here, is making it where it just happens as a byproduct, which is cool as fuck.
1:00:19.5 Caroline: Yeah. And just like kind of just bettering yourself as a human. Like say you get a new client and they wanna lose weight, that's awesome, I'll help you with that, but let's just focus on your habits and see what happens. And that's usually where they end up getting the results they want, but that they just took their focus off of it. They took their focus off of just losing weight and they're like, I'm gonna just focus on being a better version of myself. And then the weight comes off.
1:00:42.3 Jared Hamilton: It's funny, when you stop chasing, you start receiving. A mentor of mine says that a lot. Because when you're chasing and desperate, the thing you're going after, it runs from you. Weight loss, money, relationships, getting laid... It doesn't matter what it is, but the more you're like out of desperation, chasing it, the more the thing runs away from you.
1:01:00.2 Caroline: Yeah. No, that's really good.
1:01:01.8 Jared Hamilton: Well, this has been a fucking killer. Caroline, where can people... I know you've been posting more content on social lately, so where can people find you on the social?
1:01:11.4 Caroline: Good question. My main form would be Instagram. So I think I'm just @caroline_dietitian.
1:01:16.7 Jared Hamilton: Dope. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes and things like that. And then I'll talk about this more in the outro. But if you are listening to this and really like the concept of what we've been talking about and would like the potential to work with Caroline one-on-one, there's some links below, some ways you can apply for coaching and then if we think it's a good idea, we think it's a good fit, then we can talk about the possibility of what that would look like. But you could absolutely, like if you heard this and really resonate, you could request Caroline and go from there, which would be pretty cool. But we'll talk about that more in the outro. Any final thoughts?
1:01:50.2 Caroline: No, no. I'm excited to be here. Love the team.
1:01:54.1 Jared Hamilton: I love it.
1:01:55.7 Caroline: The Hamilton Trained team is amazing.
1:01:58.2 Jared Hamilton: That's right.
1:02:00.2 Caroline: People probably already know that based off...
1:02:00.8 Jared Hamilton: That's right.
1:02:00.9 Caroline: Based off your podcast, but...
1:02:02.4 Jared Hamilton: There we go.
1:02:04.4 Caroline: We're also different, but we fit together beautifully like a little puzzle.
1:02:06.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah.
1:02:06.9 Caroline: That's my cheesy...
1:02:07.6 Jared Hamilton: I love it.
1:02:09.6 Caroline: My cheesy fact.
1:02:10.4 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. Well, and if you guys wanna hear like how we kind of mesh, if you're nerdy like that, we started last month, the first of these round table events where it's me and the entire coaching staff comes on and I interview all of them at once. It's pretty cool. And then, it resonates so well, we're gonna start doing them way more frequently. So depending on when this comes out, we're doing one on May 4th. I'm not sure when this is gonna air compared to that, but if you're listening to this after May 4th, there will be a replay. So, those will be held in the Fat Loss Simplified group, which there is a link below for that. So, cool. Well, Caroline, thank you so much. I appreciate you. This has been really good.
1:02:47.1 Caroline: Of course. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
1:02:51.7 Jared Hamilton: And we're back. Thank you so much for sticking around. I really, really appreciate it. This has been a really fun interview with Caroline and I hope you got a lot of value out of it. If you stuck around this long, I know you did, like, it'd be impossible for you to not, unless you were just not even paying attention. But like I mentioned, towards the end of it, if you were listening to this and you're tired of the mental bandwidth of gaining, losing, gaining, losing, if you're tired of trying to figure it out, and if you've failed more times than you can count and you're feeling lost and you're feeling defeated or almost like giving up or almost like your situation is permanent, almost like there's no hope for me, like I'm just gonna be stuck this way, really reach out for real. If you want a chance also at working with Caroline, that's the cool thing. If you really resonated with her story and how we coach and just her vibe, you can actually request to work with Caroline inside our coaching program.
1:03:40.6 Jared Hamilton: Now, there's nowhere on the internet you can go and just sign up for our coaching program because out the gate we have to make sure you're the right kind of person and this is a good fit. We do not work with just anyone with a credit card. We wanna make sure that it's the right fit in that you have all your questions answered and all of those kind of things. So if you want to apply for coaching, there's actually a link below. You can schedule your call to chat with my team. That way we can make sure this is the right fit. And if it is, then we can go and talk about options from there. And you can request Caroline if you really like this episode. But because you are coming from the podcast, if you do get accepted into coaching, I am giving away a whole lot of free shit completely for free, just 'cause you're coming from the show. But otherwise, that's it. I really appreciate you being here.
1:04:23.1 Jared Hamilton: If you're new around here as well, be sure and check out the other resources I have for you down in the description. If you don't have a home base, you'll wanna join my Fat Loss Simplified Facebook group because I get it, this journey going by yourself is hard. We were talking about chances are your husband doesn't get it, your kids don't get it, your friends make fun of you and it's just... You may feel alone. And if that's not you, awesome. But the majority of people feel like that. And you need a home base. It's pivotal to your success. So I have a home base I built inside a Facebook community. It's beautiful. You're gonna get the love and the support and the help that you need completely for free. So be sure and go join that below. If you aren't subscribed to the YouTube, definitely go check that out. This podcast is on there. We put all the podcasts on YouTube now, so that way if you'd rather watch our interviews, Joe Rogan style, you can do that. And then I'm trying to think what else.
1:05:15.9 Jared Hamilton: And if you're newer to just losing weight in general or aren't quite sure where to start, or you just have a lot of questions, well, number one, you can always reach out. But number two, you should go through my fat loss checklist. It's a five-day mini course. It's all through your email and it will change your life. I've had tens of thousands of people go through it and it's pretty incredible. I'm really proud of it and it's really helpful and it will change your entire perspective around sustainable weight loss. So, that is it my friend. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you so much. Be sure and subscribe if you have not already. And one thing we are doing with the episodes, where I'm gonna be playing with now is doing some giveaways for reviews. So if you do me a favor and give me a podcast review, give me a five-star rating, and tell me about how the podcast has helped you. Screenshot it and email it to me, firstname.lastname@example.org. I will be giving away a 1st Phorm supplement of your choice, which is pretty cool, and whatnot. And chances are most people don't do this because of all the work, to write a review, screenshot it and send it to me, so your chances of winning are very likely. So I hope this was helpful. I love you. I appreciate you and I will talk to you next time.
In high school, Caroline didn’t feel comfortable in her own skin. She was a normal, healthy size, but felt unhappy with the way she looked. She tried a variety of diets, appetite suppressants, and would Google things like “how to lose 10 lbs in two weeks” in her attempt to slim down.
Ultimately, Caroline just dealt with her poor body image.
Once she got to college, she had some more understanding of calories—she knew she needed to cut calories to lose weight—and she started going to the gym every day.
Things got to the point where Caroline was looking for the lowest-calorie foods she could eat and was doing things like having a salad for every meal.
While she did lose some weight, her eating was very disordered and her relationship with food was terrible.
Things completely changed when Caroline took a nutrition class as an elective.
Learning that the body needs calories—and was designed to utilize proteins, carbs, and fats—rocked her world.
Her relationship with food slowly began to improve with the more she learned about nutrition. She even changed her major to Nutrition so she could help people who felt the way she had.
Dietician vs. Nutritionist:
Jared takes a minute to emphasize that being a Registered Dietitian is not like getting a certification from some random company online. RD’s have an official board AND educational requirements.
Caroline goes on to explain that a Registered Dietitian is required to have a 4-year degree from an accredited university, complete an internship, and sit for the RD exam. RD’s are also held to a standard—there is an ethics board as well as continuing education requirements.
A nutritionist is not a protected term and anyone can call themselves a nutritionist—with or without certifications or education.
There are, of course, good nutrition certifications out there, but there are also some programs or individuals that are not sharing good information.
Jared admits that he, historically, has had a hard time getting along with dietitians because he finds that they often recommend things like “avoid Gatorade, but drink your body weight in milk,” or they dislike protein powders.
Caroline believes that it comes down to education.
In school, you learn a lot of useful things—but real-world application is different—and some dietitians fail to adjust from their formal education.
Caroline herself started out very “by the book,” but as she learned more through working with clients, her views on some things changed.
A good example is calorie deficits for weight loss:
In school, Caroline was taught to put someone who needed to lose 30 lbs on a 1200 to 1400-calorie diet, but that’s not something she would do now.
Jared emphasizes that a sign of a really good coach is one that knows when to lean in and lean out—when to go by the book and when it’s not appropriate.
What Impacted Caroline’s Philosophy:
Caroline’s life experiences have, of course, been the main driver of her philosophy surrounding diet, nutrition, and weight loss.
She went from disordered eating and over-exercising, to, for a while, thinking that people shouldn’t ever try to lose weight at all, and that everything needed to be intuitive.
Caroline believes that the body positivity movement had an impact on her going from one extreme to another.
When she started school, she was very unhealthy, but as she got into her Nutrition education, the “love yourself and never try to change yourself,” body positivity movement had really become popular, and she got into the ideology of just being happy as you are without trying to change yourself for a brief period.
Her philosophy went from one extreme to another, but over time—and through her experience and education—Caroline reached a more balanced view, recognizing that you can lose weight in a healthy way AND for positive reasons.
She now strives to help people achieve their weight loss in a healthy way, so they can change things, feel better, and be comfortable in their own skin.
Jared finds that it often takes knowing the extremes to reach a middle ground because then you know where the boundaries lie.
Caroline’s Perspective on Calories and Carbs:
From a scientific point of view, every cell needs glucose.
Learning that was mind-blowing for Caroline. Glucose comes from sugar, whether you get it from cake or strawberries—though, obviously, there are some differences in nutrients between the two.
Caroline points out that if we were meant to make our own food—like plants and photosynthesis—we would do that, but we are designed to eat things to sustain life, and we should enjoy the foods we eat.
A favorite quote for both Jared and Caroline is:
“If you weren’t supposed to enjoy food, you wouldn’t have taste buds.”
Why We Need Carbs:
Caroline starts by stating that, as she previously mentioned, carbs break down into glucose—and your muscles and your brain run on glucose. You need glucose to be able to move and function.
When Caroline has clients who believe in diet culture myths like “carbs make you fat,” she likes to explain the science behind carbohydrates, and other nutrients, because she finds that it takes the emotion out of it for people.
There are ways that you can change your macros and make adjustments to reach your goals, but carbs are needed.
Think about the keto diet—when people go on the keto diet they will get the keto flu. Keto seems convincing (Caroline even tried it when she was in college), but the diet can literally make you sick.
Jared points out that many people who say “carbs aren’t essential,” are talking about it from a survival perspective—but if you apply that logic to every area of your life, you can easily see its flaws.
For example, you only need one kidney, you can survive without two (or any) legs, you don’t need TV or air conditioning…
…the list goes on.
Just because something isn’t essential for survival doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have it or enjoy it.
Caroline agrees. Even though it is cool that the body can break down other nutrients (protein) and make glucose… would you want to do that?
Is it optimal? Does it make you feel good?
(And it's absolutely not ideal for your body to break down protein or your muscles for glucose.)
Eating, Weight Loss, and the Mental Game:
Caroline simply states that you should eat as much as you can get away with while losing weight because that’s what makes your weight loss sustainable.
You can eat 1200 calories, but everyone is different. Some people will be able to stick with it for a long time and others won’t. You have to decide what you want your quality of life to be.
Do you want to eat 1200 calories a day for the rest of your life?
Jared says you need willpower—but even if you are willing to suffer so you can lose weight, eventually it won’t be worth it.
Caroline goes on to say that a very low-calorie diet is hard on your metabolism, but that’s not the only issue. Sure, you don’t have as much energy, but there is also an emotional side.
Do you feel like you can go out to dinner with friends or have a glass of wine on a very low-calorie diet?
There is a mental health aspect to your diet that needs to be considered.
Jared has calls with people looking to sign up for coaching who are suffering—missing out on date night, avoiding pictures, and feeling depressed because they are afraid to eat more.
They are missing out on the experiences that make life enjoyable.
Jared believes that life is all about experiences. We all want to spend time with family or friends, travel, have nice things—happiness, in general, is an experience.
If you are trapped by diet culture and can’t have those experiences, you are giving up your quality of life.
Cutting calories might (or might not) get you there faster, but if you take a little more time, you can enjoy the ride.
People are in a rush, Caroline says, because they just don’t want to wait. They want to show up a month later and be down 100 lbs. They want the result, but don’t want to put in the work.
She goes on to say that it is hard work—and it can be scary.
Dealing with things like inner child issues and your food relationship has to be dealt with if you want to have sustainable change.
Jared says that fixing your relationship with food and unlearning the things you’ve learned from your parents or society is what really has to be unpacked for transformation to happen. It’s not all about calories—weight loss is a by-product of dealing with these issues.
Caroline is amazed at how much fixing your food relationship and body image bleeds into other areas of your life and makes a positive impact.
As Jared always says, “If you lose weight and stay the same you, you did it wrong.” We are the foundation of everything in our lives. If you improve yourself by 20%, everything else gets improved as well.
Think about it as, “Who do I need to become to lose weight,” not “How do I lose weight?”
It’s an identity shift.
Having Habits Stick:
Caroline says that accepting that you aren’t going to become the person you want to be overnight is the first step. From there, you need to make very, very small steps toward that goal.
She uses the example of wanting to wake up earlier. Instead of trying to wake up 2 full hours earlier, you could start with just getting up 15 minutes earlier and slowly work towards the time you ultimately want to be waking up at.
Jared finds that many people feel that small changes aren’t enough.
Caroline says that it’s a matter of how much you want it to stick—if you want that change to be lifelong, you need to be realistic about what you can do.
Jared points out that if you can’t achieve small goals, how can you think you would achieve larger goals?
Caroline says it’s the same with habits—people want to change 20 habits when they can’t change just one in the first place.
Jared mentions an event where he heard Jesse Itzler speak. Jesse is an extremely accomplished individual and during his speech, he said that he is a big fan of a habit-of-the-month approach—if you add a new habit each month, you will have 12 new habits in a year.
People want to go faster, but going slowly actually leads to sustainable results.
In the 180 Impact program, habits are not built as slowly as one new thing a month, but the approach is balanced to make change sustainable.
When clients want to go faster or want to do something extreme they often will defend those tactics even though it hasn’t worked for them.
Caroline thinks that people will defend systems that don’t work because it’s easy—if carbs are the problem, you don’t really have to change.
That’s why there are new fad diets every year. People want something to blame.
You need to think about what you can do and want to do for the rest of your life. Fad diets don’t teach you about nutrition and aren’t sustainable because they are extreme. In 180 Impact, you are taught skills that you take with you when you graduate from the coaching program.
Caroline’s Favorite Part of Coaching:
Caroline’s favorite part of coaching is seeing her clients' quality of life improve.
She loves seeing her clients able to enjoy life, go out to dinner, have wine, spend time with friends and family, etc. Helping them lose weight is cool, but what really fills her cup is seeing them happy.
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