Overcome Your Emotions & CRUSH Your Weight Loss ft. Ryan Kassim | Dieting from the Inside Out Ep.237
About this Episode:
In this episode, we talk to a good friend of mine, Ryan Kassim.
We cover a lot in this episode, but one of the things we spent some time on is a topic that I’m really into right now, and that is equanimity, when to use that in weight loss, and how to manage ambitions and expectations on your weight loss journey. We also talk about your inner game and how it applies to weight loss and your relationship with food. I love having Ryan on the show because he and I can explore a lot of useful topics for our listeners without a rigid agenda. I know you’ll enjoy and get a lot out of the variety of topics we cover in today’s episode.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
01:45 – Our sponsors
04:48 – About today's episode
06:32 – Catching up with Ryan
11:43 – About Ryan Kassim
15:40 – Awareness and balancing mental health with goals
26:20 – Anticipatory anxiety
34:12 – Finding peace in weight loss
01:02:00 – Catching up on Jared's personal weight loss journey
01:08:33 – Closing thoughts and how to sign up for coaching
Episode Transcript (click to expand)
Ep
. 237 Ryan Kassim
Download 237 RYAN KASSIM • 147KB
EP#237: Overcoming Your
motions in Weight Loss ft. Ryan Kassim
0:00:12.0 Jared Hamilton: And we are back. Welcome my friend to a brand new episode of Dieting From the Inside Out. If you are new around these parts, my name is Jared Hamilton and I am super excited that you are here in the house because I just really value your time and attention. It's two of the most valuable things we can offer another person. So I'm really grateful that you're giving yours to me for the next, I don't know, however long this episode is. But anyway, I really appreciate you nonetheless. Now, welcome to Dieting from the Inside Out. If you're newer here, this is where we're going to put diet culture to shame. And we're gonna show you that the true way to get to where you want to be is not through the normal methodologies of weight loss, right? Like, actually, to be honest, I need to come up with a really good catchphrase for like, dieting from the inside out, duh, duh, duh, duh. Like that kind of thing.
0:00:53.4 Jared Hamilton: But no, in all reality, the reason I created the show and the reason that the show is here is because your issues that are stopping you from losing the weight you wanna lose, feeling amazing, living the life that you're supposed to live, being happy and thriving, let's be honest, have nothing to do with weight loss, right? Like, if I snap my fingers right now and the 50 pounds you're trying to lose comes off, more than likely you would not be good, right? I ask that question a lot, to be honest with you. And almost every person I ask goes, Oh yeah, I know I would not be good. I'd still be binge eating, I'd still be scared I'm gonna gain my weight back, I'd still feel shame eating ice cream with my partner because ice cream is bad or I would still be self deprecative, I still wouldn't be happy, like all that kind of stuff.
0:01:33.1 Jared Hamilton: So that's why Dieting From the Inside Out is here so we can actually get you to where you wanna be in an actual way that's gonna work and not the old bullshit that you've been doing. So, welcome to the show. I'm really grateful for you. Now, I have a really cool episode lined up for you today. But before we get into all that, we do need a really big thank you to the sponsors of the show. Sponsor number one is FlexPro Meals and without them, my fridge would be very, very empty right now. Actually it's funny, like, every meal I eat is not FlexPro. Like a lot of people ask if all I eat is FlexPro meals and of course not. But like, it's one of those things where having FlexPro in my fridge all the time on deck is so helpful. Like, you know, like the one or two times a day that like, I either don't want to make food or I'm between meetings or I'm, you know, getting ready to leave and I need to grab a meal and get out of the house. Like, just that kind of stuff and on top of it, it saves me way more money than, you know because of fast food.
0:02:23.6 Jared Hamilton: Like I'm telling you guys, I was with some friends last night. I went to Jujutsu. A few of my Jujutsu training partners and some friends of mine, we wanted to go over to this cigar bar that's right in my hometown. So we did that. We went and rolled and did Jujutsu, then popped over there, had a cigar, a drink and just hung out and it was a great night. But because I was hungry as fuck on the way home, I decided, I'm like, You know what? I haven't eaten that much today and I'm really, really hungry and I've got like a 30 minute drive home, so I'm just gonna swing through Taco Bell 'cause that's the only thing open at midnight and my meal was like, I just got a regular meal and it was like $15, right? And I'm like, since when is fast food this expensive? You know. So, that's the other nice thing with FlexPro. Like, if I would've had a FlexPro, it would've been the equivalent of like $6 to $8. So it would've literally been almost half of what normal fast food is. And I promise you FlexPro would've tasted better. It would've been way lower calories. It would've been way higher protein and I wouldn't feel so shitty today.
0:03:16.8 Jared Hamilton: So not shitty, like emotionally like, ah, shame on me. Like shitty as in it's Taco Bell. Like my body hates me. Like I'm just like, ugh, like feeling sluggish. But anyway, nonetheless, huge props to FlexPro for keeping me taken care of. If you guys are into that kind of thing or would like to have some meals ready to go that way you don't have to think about it as much and not have to spend so much money in the drive through, then definitely go check out their website or click the link below flexpromeals.com and you can use my code HamiltonTrained and you'll save yourself an additional 20% at checkout, which is pretty dope. Then we need to have a big thank you from our second sponsor, which is 1st Phorm, best clothes ever but to be honest, their supplements are even better.
0:03:52.8 Jared Hamilton: 1st Phorm is amazing, guys. I absolutely love the whole crew at 1st Phorm HQ, Andy Frisella, the whole squad over there, they keep me taken care of because you and I both know, like supplements aren't everything but they do have their time and their place. They help fill so many gaps, especially from a very basic level. Like, if you can't get enough protein in, like having a good supplement for that, let's say you benefit a lot from having bars or meat sticks or things like that on the go that way you can just throw it in your purse and they're taking care of there too. Like legitimately their protein bars are the best I've like ever had in my life. And I'm not just saying that because they sponsor me, like, try it for yourself.
0:04:26.7 Jared Hamilton: Like they even have 110% money back guarantee. So like no one else does that. So like, if you go to try their stuff and you're not happy with it, they have a 110% money back guarantee, so you'll even make money. It's crazy but huge props to them for keeping me taken care of and they're just absolutely amazing. So I will leave a link down below if you're into free shipping because, you know, who likes to pay for shipping. But otherwise, let's get into the nuts and bolts of the show because this is a really cool episode. Today I am interviewing a good friend of mine, one of my best friends and a fellow coach. It is Ryan Kassim. So Ryan and I met several years ago. Ryan, I've actually gone out to stay with him a couple times when he was living in New York. And so a lot of people who follow me follow Ryan as well.
0:05:08.9 Jared Hamilton: So in today's episode, we went like all over the place. We got like caught up on what Ryan's doing in his life and you know, what's going on with him. But then we went so many different areas in the world of weight loss in the inner game 'cause you guys know that's my shit, right? The podcast is called Dieting From the Inside Out. So we got talking about everything, got talking about one of my biggest things that I'm really focusing on right now, which is equanimity. I don't know what I'm gonna call the podcast episode yet. I don't know what I'm gonna title it 'cause we talked about so many different things but we talked about equanimity and when to use that in weight loss, how to handle expectations and ambition and action on your journey. Like when to lean in to expectations and the plan then when to back out in terms of your expectations and where your emotions are at. The whole concept of like your inner game as it applies to weight loss, your relationship with food.
0:05:52.0 Jared Hamilton: We went so many different ways with this episode and it was a really good time. Like I always love catching up with Ryan and talking with him and it's one of those things where I know I can go into episodes like this without like a super big agenda of like, of notes and what to talk about because we just riff and it just flows so well. And every time we do it, both of us get a lot of feedback from the listeners like, Oh, yo, that was crazy. That was super helpful. That changed everything. So that's what my aim is to do with this. So I know you're gonna get a lot of value out of it. Sorry, I'm stuttering. And I know it's gonna change your life. I know you're gonna have some golden nuggets you're gonna be able to take and run and change your life with. So no further ado, let's get into today's episode and I'll talk to you in just a minute. Bro. I miss you. I feel like we haven't... We haven't hung out in a minute but we haven't, I feel like, talked in a little bit. I miss you dude.
0:06:39.7 Ryan Kassim: I know. I feel like I've been in like a cocoon since I moved back from New York and like it's just, it's been a massive adjustment period for sure.
0:06:50.5 Jared Hamilton: Well, like, so, let's catch everyone up to speed 'cause most people who follow me they should be following you and it's been a minute since...
0:07:00.0 Ryan Kassim: You sons of bitches.
0:07:02.0 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, you sons of bitches. So like just to get it right 'cause a lot's changed since like the last podcast. Just in the last like couple months like your life is totally different. So update us all. Like, what's going on in the life of Ryan?
0:07:13.6 Ryan Kassim: Well, one, the last podcast that you and I did on your podcast, I think was when I was living in New York City still. So basically I was living in New York City for the past two and a half years and my lease was ending in May. And I kind of just had like that fork in the road moment where I was like, do I want to continue living in New York City? Do I wanna continue paying a ton of rent for where I was living? Do I love where I live? You know, like all these things are going through my mind and I was just like, do I love New York City? I was like, no. I was like, do I love parts of it? Yes. But is it enough to keep me here? I was like, no. Do I love paying for a shit ton of rent? No. Do I...
0:08:00.2 Jared Hamilton: For like 400 feet of floor?
0:08:02.8 Ryan Kassim: Exactly. And really nice 400 feet but still it's just... I think ultimately it just, it didn't sit well with me. Like I wasn't, sort of like... I guess one way you can put it, I wasn't like truly happy where I was living. Like New York City it's awesome for everything it has but you know, I'm already such like an overstimulated person. Like I work through my own anxiety daily and like New York is a high anxiety environment regardless. 'Cause like...
0:08:36.2 Jared Hamilton: Oh Dear God. Yeah, absolutely.
0:08:37.8 Ryan Kassim: Always. And you know it, yeah, you visited a few times and it's just like, there's always beeping, there's always trains, there's always sirens and it's kind of like I almost needed to come back. So I moved back to Connecticut, that was my decision. I moved back to Connecticut and it's just like, you might be able to hear in the background now, it's just like nothing. It's just...
0:08:57.4 Jared Hamilton: I heard a car.
0:09:00.0 Ryan Kassim: You might hear like some cars here and there but like, you know, I'm like, it's just more peaceful. It's quieter. Ultimately I'm spending more time with my family, which is great. And, you know, my ultimate move is gonna be to do like sort of like a West Coast tour. So I don't think I even updated you on this, I might have actually. But I'm planning, instead of just moving out to California, which is like my original plan, I'm going to do like a West Coast tour, which is gonna be like one to two months in different Airbnbs in different cities.
0:09:32.1 Jared Hamilton: That's so cool, dude.
0:09:33.6 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. Just to kind of like get an idea of where I feel good and you know, where I wanna put some roots down, you know? So, that idea sits better with me rather than just being like, all right, straight to LA and then if I'm like, fuck, I hate it here than just, you know... Instead of just being all in on that.
0:09:51.4 Jared Hamilton: Which is the consensus I've heard, everyone's like, fuck LA.
0:09:54.9 Ryan Kassim: Great. Like, yeah. And you know, even I just came back from visiting there, I didn't love it. Like I didn't fall in love with it by any means. So, to me I was just like, you know what, I'd rather like do a couple months here and there. And that was like my original goal too and maybe for yourself when you first started online coaching but I was just like, I would love to have... Just have the opportunity to be anywhere I wanted, to work anywhere I wanted when I wanted. So it kind of almost like aligns with like my north star in a way too.
0:10:26.8 Jared Hamilton: And the cool thing is, it's probably still gonna be cheaper than what you were paying for in New York City.
0:10:32.2 Ryan Kassim: You know what's fucked up is you're absolutely right.
0:10:34.6 Jared Hamilton: Like you bouncing around from one month at a time in different Airbnbs with no commitment, no lease, no... It's probably going to... And you're gonna have a house.
0:10:43.0 Ryan Kassim: I know.
0:10:43.0 Jared Hamilton: You're like, I'm gonna rent the entire guest house of this person's house in fucking wherever, I don't know, Utah or something and it's gonna be way cheaper than what you were paying in New York. So that's cool.
0:10:55.8 Ryan Kassim: Oh, crazy cheaper. And that's...
0:10:58.6 Jared Hamilton: I bet you're gonna like some... You're like, I'm gonna try stop here just because and you're gonna like fall in love and it's gonna be like, holy shit, I did not think I would love...
0:11:06.2 Ryan Kassim: You're hoping it's gonna be Indianapolis.
0:11:07.6 Jared Hamilton: I absolutely hope it's gonna be Indianapolis. You're like, that corny motherfucker.
0:11:13.0 Ryan Kassim: That's exactly what you're referring to.
0:11:15.1 Jared Hamilton: That bastard was right. Oh my gosh. I love...
0:11:17.6 Ryan Kassim: What if you're like, just try Indianapolis for a little bit, man, that could be fun.
0:11:22.2 Jared Hamilton: Like, wow, this kind of gives me like... I can get my like in city fix but it's not as big as New York. But then you like drive 20 minutes this way and you can't hear a soul, holy shit it's great.
0:11:34.8 Ryan Kassim: All I hear is your fucking podcast or you yelling at Remy.
0:11:38.8 Jared Hamilton: That's not wrong.
0:11:41.3 Ryan Kassim: Don't we all.
0:11:42.7 Jared Hamilton: Oh, that's great. That's great. Alright dude, so for those that are like still under a rock and don't know about you, give like the dating profile of Ryan Kassim or not the dating profile, the...
0:11:55.6 Ryan Kassim: You do not want my dating profile.
0:11:58.0 Jared Hamilton: Well, if you wanna throw that out there, like, you know, more power to you. Shameless plug. But like who's Ryan? Like, for those that are like, all right, who's this? Like your intro if you will. Like who's Ryan, what's your... You know, long walks on the beach, wine and good conversation.
0:12:15.2 Ryan Kassim: Shorter walks to like a bench.
0:12:20.4 Jared Hamilton: Holy shit.
0:12:24.3 Ryan Kassim: Okay, I... Good start. My name's Ryan Kassim. So I have been a personal trainer, nutrition coach, health and wellness coach as I like to call myself now for the past almost 10 years now. I graduated from University of Rhode Island. Could not get a job in health admin career right off the bat so I became a trainer. If so facto through the years of me coaching and then getting into like corporate wellness, I quickly discovered not just through my own coaching clients but through myself that mental health is everything. And when you have a strong mental and behavioral foundation, it only adds to your physical foundation, right? So that was my big breakthrough that I had probably about four years into the industry was, you know, I had my lowest points where I was dealing with severe depression, dealing with severe anxiety and I was in the best shape of my life too. That was like the most ironic part. It was like, I looked fucking great but in the inside I was broken. So through...
0:13:35.7 Jared Hamilton: Physically built but mentally broken.
0:13:36.0 Ryan Kassim: Yeah, I was fucked up. You know, it's so... And it's such an interesting thing too because you get all these compliments from people on, like externally, Oh, you look great and they assume you must be doing well, right? But it's far, far from the actual reality of things, you know? So from that, I went to therapy and through therapy... I've been in therapy, still go to therapy like once a month for check-ins but been in therapy for five years now and it's completely changed how I communicate, how I am more vulnerable, my awareness around myself, my actions, my thoughts, how I deal with anxiety, how I interact with others, honestly it's changed how I coach people too. And you could probably attest to that yourself. But yeah, that's a little bit about me. So I'm a health and wellness coach who focuses on not just the calories in calories out but you know, your mental health in mental health out.
0:14:40.7 Jared Hamilton: I love that. Well and so like that's... I think a big balance is like... It's the way we both, you know, coach the way we do. But I think a lot of people really struggle with not just the head space side of things but that balance of where does calories in calories out, workouts, fat loss and I'm fucking depressed and I hate myself and I emotionally eat and sabotage and binge eat because of all these inner issues and inner child problems. And that's like the biggest thing. Like, to be honest, I built my coaching program around that balance. But, for you, where do you... Like, how do you balance that? Like for someone listening, it's like, okay, I get I have all these issues but I also get calories in calories out 'cause I'm a fat fuck and I hate the way I look. So like where is that balance and how do you navigate that?
0:15:28.1 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. Well I think everything stems from awareness and you'd be so surprised... My dog just joined me out here. But you'd be so surprised...
0:15:37.0 Jared Hamilton: Joey!
0:15:39.5 Ryan Kassim: About how so many people just have a lack of awareness around their emotions, about how they feel, about their triggers, about how emotions affect hunger. I just had this conversation with a client the other day about how... She was just candid, she was like, I am having a hard time recognizing my emotions. Right? And you just have to remind somebody that we're not born with these skills, right? Some people are very good at communicating from the get go, right? They're very good at it. But most of us, we have no idea how to recognize emotions, how to communicate emotions, how to create solutions. So it all stems from awareness. So for every client that I work with, our first few months are really spent on identifying who you are, what triggers you, your emotions, where they stem from and how to work through it but also not just work through them but recognize them and acknowledge them and understand them.
0:16:50.7 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. No, I love that dude. I agree with that so much. 'Cause especially like how tactical is that for weight loss? Like my biggest issue is right around this conversation right around now, most people are like, I get it, Jared, you're in the froufrou space, you're in the airy-fairy, I need to know how to lose this weight. But like, if I'm not mistaken, not emotionally eating is a hell of a calorie deficit. Like, I think a lot of people misunderstand that your... It's why I rebranded the podcast to Dieting From the inside Out. And the whole first stage of like, our coaching program is called Dieting from the Inside Out because if you do not do this inside out work, no fat loss will ever happen. I don't think people realize... Like, you know how like people, you'll hear people like give all the advice and it doesn't help weight loss. Like, I'm gonna cut down caffeine and sodium. It's like, that's not gonna do shit for your weight loss. You know what I mean? Like, your zero calorie cup of coffee and the salt you put on your chicken breast is not your problem. But a lot of people view it the same way. It's like, well, they're talking about emotions and triggers and like but I wanna lose weight right now. But like, I think people don't realize how fucking tactical that is for a very surface level goal of I just wanna lose weight.
0:18:01.2 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And I think it's also good... There's a couple things that come to mind. One is whenever somebody's like, I need to remove caffeine or I need to remove this food or anything like that, it's a coping mechanism. It's coping. We're trying to... It's avoidance. We're creating avoidance from the real problem. And whenever there's avoidance, there's anxiety and there's issues that stem deeper, right? It's like if you imagine like a tree branch... Kinda like your tattoo. You have that tree branch and then but that branch leads back to the roots of the problem. So, you could take out caffeine and it could help in the short term but you know, there's a reason why you keep feeling the need to do something else that you think is gonna solve your problem rather than we need to look inward and create awareness and identify where the true root of the problem is, right? It's almost like, just like if somebody's sick and you have all these symptoms, you don't wanna just treat the symptoms. You wanna actually find out what the root cause is. So it's the same exact thing as we're just trying to diagnose ourselves. And that's the hardest fucking thing because nobody wants to do that because it's hard, it's challenging and it takes so much time to do.
0:19:15.8 Ryan Kassim: But once you take that time to do it, then that's when you can get through all the bullshit that comes with it. And I think the other thing that's sort of... That you brought up was not only do we use these things to cope but the solution process has to really... Again, we have to circle back around to how we view the issue from a whole and how we view our approach to that solution and are we going out the same exact way, are you stuck in a loop or are you willing to sort of take that time to step back and say, What is really the issue going on?
0:19:56.3 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. No, I totally agree with that. Well 'cause I think where people go wrong with so much of that is they get so in their heads around like, "Well, I've gotta do it now as fast as possible" or "I have to like..." That's why people get upset. Like, get bent out of shape like whenever... Even in our world, like, inside coaching, when we're explaining to someone, "yo, we're not going into weight loss, which is stage two, until we do our stage one of dieting from the inside out" and they're like, "Well, how long is it gonna take? When can I go into weight loss?" "Hey, I think I'm ready for weight loss now," I'm like, "Janet, you're still binge eating every other day, you're not ready." And it's like the more you think, "Okay, I've gotta do this as fast as possible," it's no wonder those are the people who take the longest. Do you notice that too, the people who wanna lose weight the fastest are the ones who struggle the longest and the ones who don't give a fuck, lose it the fastest and most drastic?
0:20:43.9 Ryan Kassim: Absolutely. And it's almost like it's part of that is like, where is this urgency coming from? It's like, where's the fire? And you're trying to put out... Again, like we talked about, you're trying to put out this small fire when there's a huge building across the street that's been on fire for years. Absolutely, it's the people who constantly, you're trying to get back to that weight loss process. And to say this too, there's some people who can do both at the same time. But you have to commit to both at the same time, you can't just half-ass either one. Right? But absolutely, I always tell clients too who struggle with bouncing back and forth and weight loss and have all of this other things going on is sometimes being at maintenance and not focusing on, How can I lose this way and focusing on how can I get healthy, how can I get stronger and how can I reflect inward? Those are the things that are going to pay dividends and build those habits up, so that when the time comes to the actual weight loss, you now have a solid foundation to stem from.
0:21:58.2 Jared Hamilton: It's funny you're bringing that up. We were just talking about this in one of my groups yesterday, one of the girls in my group coaching program literally decided... And she said it was hard like every summer... We just ended summer. Every summer, it's like, everyone's gotta get shredded for summer or lose all this weight for summer. She said, I'm gonna make this summer my maintenance summer because I'm so tired of missing out on all the... Not enjoying my summers because I'm trying to lose weight and summer just ended and she's like now getting read to go back into her deficit and she's like, I literally had the best summer ever, my measurements... She's like, literally my measurements didn't change, my clothes didn't change but I literally had the best summer with the most experiences ever because I didn't wanna try to lose weight and I just did maintenance all summer. And it's like that's the trade-off. It's like, can you get to your goal faster with going crazy? It's like, well, yeah but then you're sacrificing quality of life, balance and enjoyment, so it's like...
0:22:54.2 Jared Hamilton: I think too people, to be honest with you, I'm curious your thoughts on this. They think one answer is right and one answer is wrong. They're like, No, I have to do it fast, that's the right answer but if I said, Hey, would you rather... Are you okay with getting there slower but you enjoy the whole journey? That's not wrong, that's like I suggest it but I think a lot of people view it as that's wrong. You see what I mean?
0:23:15.4 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And it's funny as you're saying that, that's a teaching through meditation where... One, the hardest thing to do is when we sit with our thoughts, we're so judgmental as each thought pops in our head, we're like, No, I shouldn't do that or this is wrong or that's fucked up or yes or no, this is good, this is bad. And as we kind of recognize and take time and take this awareness, it kind of brings us more to... There's really no such thing as good or bad. It's just what is. And especially when it comes to weight loss and maintenance, for whatever reason, people assume weight loss is progress, right? If I'm not losing weight, I'm not progressing as a human being. However, like you just said, that perfect story from your client, maintenance is progress too. So there's nothing wrong with either one, it's just that in certain seasons of life, one thing is progress for you, right, like we tell you all the time, sometimes for that person eating that fucking pizza is progress, for others, it's not even that pizza. So it's very... And this is a challenge to any viewer but I challenge you to really as these thoughts pop in your head, instead of having your first instinct being to judge this thought, just sit with this thought and observe it because there's no need to judge it, they're just thoughts, they're not actions yet, they haven't turned into any actions.
0:24:52.3 Jared Hamilton: No, I love that so much. And I think people... I think this is something I stole from Ed Mylett, it was the first time I ever heard this. And it was, just don't be so quick to believe everything you think and feel. We need to honor and hold space for thoughts and emotions just like you would a child but could you imagine if you had a child and you had to make everything they said true. There's I think a Jim Carrey like that, I think it was called Yes Man, where it was a world without lies and if he said, no, there's a million dollars in my bank account, the bank's like, We must be wrong, here's the million dollars, we fucked up. And that's just pure chaos but we do that with our brains. Imagine a child and as a mom or dad, you had to make everything they said or thought true. Mommy, my brother hit me and you saw he didn't and it's like, Well, little Billy, I guess you hit your brother, you're in trouble and it's like that would be pure chaos but then us adults do that. Everything we think and everything that we feel we go, It must be true.
0:25:48.3 Jared Hamilton: I think I might be a lost cause, I must truly be a lost cause. I think I'm worthless, I truly must be worthless. I think I should be further ahead, it's written in stone by God I am supposed to be further ahead. Then we get pure chaos.
0:26:03.7 Ryan Kassim: One, I'm gonna correct you first, so you mixed two Jim Carrey movies, Yes Man And Liar Liar.
0:26:09.9 Jared Hamilton: Oh yeah, yeah. My bad. Damn it.
0:26:11.8 Ryan Kassim: So as you were going through that analogy, I'm like, You're wrong. But yes. And then also, that's why learning to, one, understand what anticipatory anxiety is... So anticipatory anxiety is anticipating events that haven't even happened yet, right? So example would be anticipating that you're gonna fuck up on your diet before it's even happened. It hasn't happened yet, you're in control in this very moment but you are anticipating that three days from now you're gonna fuck up because whether it's your ingrained habit, whether it's your ingrained behavior or whether that's just been your thought process for the past 20 years. And then the other thing is... The other tool, which is incredibly important is learning how to reframe your thoughts. So a reframe is just basically instead of saying, I'm going to fuck this up, reframe your thoughts being like, in this moment, I'm in complete control and I have full control over these next... One day, in this moment, the next meal, my next bite, right? You're reframing your thoughts to get away from, I'm gonna fuck this up or the anticipatory anxiety event to shaping it in a way that is maybe more positive or in a way that is much more realistic or in this moment, so that you get less out of the future and more into the present.
0:27:39.6 Jared Hamilton: I love that so much. Well and that's the thing is, there's so much power in reframing because you're creating an entirely new context. Right? You and I both know context changes meanings of a story, there's a little mini analogy that I like to use, I can't remember who said it, it was the concept of how an unwelcome pest becomes a welcome guest. So the scene is someone's banging on your front door at 3:00 in the morning. That's all the context you know. And so you're like, What the fuck is this dude doing at my door at 3:00 in the morning? And as you approach the door, they just yell, your barn is on fire. And it's like, Oh, that's pretty dope. This guy's... Now I'm like... This dude that you're like, Who the fuck is this guy at my front door at 3:00 in the morning to, I'm so glad they're at my front door at 3:00 in the morning telling me my mini barn's on fire. Because it got reframed in your head because of full context.
0:28:33.5 Jared Hamilton: It's the same thing with this, that's why reframing is so powerful because you could have the best situation in the world but because of a negative reframe, then you live in suffering. How many times you and I see a client or a person in the DMs they're like, Oh my gosh, the scale hasn't moved. And you go, What do measurements do? And they go, Well, they're down. But the scale hasn't moved. And it's like you literally took the best fucking outcome and you reframed it to not serve you anymore and it's dangerous.
0:29:00.1 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. It's absolutely dangerous. And again, I think that that's why going through the whole process of understanding your thoughts, understanding who you are, understanding your past traumas, understanding past events that have led you to that point, it's what helps you understand that that's why your mind leads to where it goes, so almost like that instantaneously and then that's why it's important to sit with those thoughts, to develop more awareness around yourself so that you can utilize that tool of reframing. Because it also makes complete sense why somebody does that. It makes complete sense. It's like if I train my dog to sit when I tell him to sit, it makes sense, right? So if you trained your mind for the past... Some people are mid-40s, mid-50s, mid-60s still going through it, it makes complete sense because you spent the past 40 to 50 years having that be your instantaneous thought that that's where your mind goes.
0:29:58.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. Could you imagine, let's say you adopted a dog... Like two of my girls we did not get as puppies, we just rescued them as adult dogs. But could you imagine how frustrating it would be if I said "Sit" and they stood up. Because let's say their old owner mixed commands, Hey, when I say it, I want you to stand up. That would be so frustrating if I didn't know but then once that's not... That didn't actually happen but if it did, it would be so frustrating if every time I go "Sit" the dog gets triggered to stand up or if I say "Stay" and they run or they bark. It's like the wires are crossed just because of the old conditioning, then it's totally understandable to know there's gonna be some struggle with retraining that but so many people have gone through decades of dieting and they have old fucked up reframes.
0:30:46.5 Jared Hamilton: I think it was Dr. Joe Dispenza, who basically said it that the mind is just a record of the past. That's all it is. So your mind is simply a history lesson of the past with like your old neural pathways where if you've had these beliefs and old re-frames and meanings to all these things for the past decade, that's just... That's why it's more important to now go create a new record of the past, new neural pathways so your brain's like, Oh, this is okay. Because otherwise, if you just keep living and doing the same shit, you're just living the same day over and over again with the old history lesson.
0:31:20.8 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. It's Groundhog Day and that's why people get stuck in yoyo dieting cycles throughout their whole life and they continue on the dog training analogy, if that was the case, what would we need to deal with that situation? We would need patience, we would need empathy, we would need understanding and we would need effort. Those are all the tools that we use daily to overcome something or to learn something or to train something. Those are tools we use regardless, which is why we promote that all the time with clients is because we're trying to create change and we need to have all these tools that I just mentioned in order to create that change.
0:32:07.2 Jared Hamilton: And it's funny but then as soon as someone gets in the diet world, all of those go out the window. There's no empathy. They're like, What the fuck is wrong with me? I'm such a piece of shit. There's no kindness, there's no compassion, there's no patience. Oh it's been seven days and I haven't lost seven pounds, so fuck it. You know what I mean? And I actually was in the middle of a big training yesterday and I asked... 'Cause we were talking about this kind of stuff. And I asked, how would you... How did I word that? I said, How would you feel if your best friend was... Someone treated your best friend the way you talk and treat yourself, how pissed off would you be? And everyone's like, I'd cut a bitch's throat.
0:32:46.8 Jared Hamilton: I would like... And everyone was getting angry. They were like, Oh, I would not have it, I'd beat their ass. I would not have it. But then when it comes to ourselves... 'Cause if you know anything about psychology, you know this is really fucked up at an inner child level. You know what I mean? That's like telling a child, you're not worth being shown up for, you're not good enough, you're not allowed to feel these feelings around me here, cereal. And that's what we're doing when we refuse to sit with our emotions, when we refuse to look at our triggers, when we refuse to give ourselves the gift of more time and patience and kindness with our own stuff.
0:33:15.0 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. It's mental abuse, right?
0:33:19.0 Jared Hamilton: Absolutely, it's mental abuse.
0:33:21.4 Ryan Kassim: But it's not reported, right? Because it's just what that person knows. It's just what is. Right? It's like, if we were raised in that environment, then maybe you don't see it as fucked up until someone's like, that's fucked up, right? So, it's constant mental abuse that somebody puts themselves through after year, after year, after year and no wonder that person comes with resistance, that person comes with impatience, that person comes with lack of empathy for themselves because they've just been mentally abusing themselves for year after year and that's just the environment that they've lived in and supposedly have thrived in, right? So, to me, it makes complete sense.
0:34:08.5 Jared Hamilton: Right. But then we, now more important than ever, have to change that. You know what I mean? Which I think is a beautiful segue, 'cause right now for those listening, Ryan and I have just been bullshitting. [laughter] This is not in the notes at all, off the cuffing totally but we were originally gonna be talking about finding peace in weight loss. That's what we were like, Oh, let's talk about that. That sounds really good. So I think this is a beautiful segue to lean into that on like, alright, with all that being said now, let's say the listeners are like, Okay, I get it, it's fucked up, I've been doing this for a long time, I don't know but what do I do now? How do I go about finding peace in the chaos-filled weight loss journey, if you will?
0:34:48.5 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And that was something that I was just like making my omelette and I kinda like, I was just like, you know what, whenever I imagine somebody who's just starting a weight loss journey, I just imagine that everything that they're doing, everything that they're thinking is just on high alert, right? And it's so hard to find peace within the chaos of what could be weight loss for somebody, especially everything that we talked about, you know, if they have all these internal issues going on while they're trying to lose weight. So I think... And we don't have any notes on this, so I think we're just gonna lay out our own step by step...
[overlapping conversation]
0:35:28.4 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
0:35:28.5 Ryan Kassim: Right. But for finding peace with weight loss, I think one thing we have to remember, I think it always is going to start with empathy, right? This is... The most common thing we hear is, I fucked up, right? And as coaches, we already have the knowledge and awareness like, no, you're actually, you're fucking good. You're fine. [chuckle] Like, let's douse out this fire, right?
0:35:52.2 Jared Hamilton: It's not that big of a deal. It's only been 24 hours, like, you're freaking out over a cookie. It's fine.
0:35:57.8 Ryan Kassim: Right. It's like, you're imagining your building is on fire when we're like, Oh no, it's just a trash fire, we're good. You left your candle on, let me just put that out for you real quick, you know? So it's one, I would say if you're trying to really find peace and get in a groove during weight loss is one, you have to develop empathy for yourself. So empathy means give yourself grace, give yourself understanding, forgiveness, right? That's probably the hardest thing for people to do during weight loss is to forgive themselves. Especially like we said, you overeat on the weekend, it's like... If you overeat on the weekend, you're like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna be like, why the fuck are you apologizing? You're good. Obviously, you're forgiven but it's just like that... For some reason, forgiveness is one of the hardest things for people to do during the weight loss process.
0:36:55.0 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, 100%. I feel like everything gets... It gets extrapolated, like, you overate by 200 calories of a Granola bar and you literally are absolutely convinced your life is over. And it's like, bro, it was a Granola bar. Let's chill the fuck out. You know what I mean? Or like, people... My thing is, one of my biggest things and I've been doing a lot of study on this one thing, I'm actually thinking about getting this tattooed on me somewhere and I don't know yet but the whole concept... Like my favorite word right now is equanimity. And equanimity is like... It's something that I want to truly embody. I feel like I do an okay job at being equanimous if we wanna use it like that but it's basically calm amongst duress, emotional neutrality. The total polar opposite of equanimity is anxiety.
0:37:43.5 Jared Hamilton: But like, if you look at the people in life who embody equanimity, they can't be shaken. It's almost like there's a release of expectation, there's a release of timeline, there's a release of outcomes. Like, Ryan, you and I have talked about this with my struggles with this in a million other areas where it's like, I would have a tendency to get so obsessed with outcomes and patterns and processes and systems and all this stuff, where it's like I'm getting a little too far away from equanimity, right? There's a balance of like, if I look at a Venn diagram and I see ambition on one circle and equanimity on the other circle, there's a middle ground where there's like, they both can co-exist but there's gotta be a level like in the world of finding balance within... Or finding peace within weight loss, there has to be equanimity where like, yeah, you have the ambition of you wanna lose weight, you wanna get your life better, here are the actions you're putting, you're deploying against it, you're gonna workout, you're gonna eat right, you're gonna journal, you're going to make better decisions.
0:38:41.4 Jared Hamilton: But then when it comes time to get into the trenches, you have to flip the equanimity switch, where it's like, I'm not concerned about how fast or slow I'm losing weight, I'm not concerned about my timelines, I'm trusting that me showing up for myself every day is going to cause the result I'm looking for at some point, I don't know when and I'm okay not knowing when. I think that is one of the biggest pieces everyone is missing is equanimity.
0:39:08.8 Ryan Kassim: And I like... Couple of things came to mind when you said that, one, [laughter] major kudos to Jared, Mr. Homeschooled, who came from... [laughter] His vocab and his dictionary just expanded on us. [laughter] So major kudos. That was like my first thought like, "oh, goddamn." [laughter]
0:39:24.8 Jared Hamilton: My dictionary and my fashion sense. Oh my gosh. [laughter]
0:39:32.4 Ryan Kassim: He's evolving. And a couple other things came to mind too, right? So one, when we think of equanimity, we're thinking of, how do we get to that point? How do we get to emotional neutrality? And we get to emotional neutrality when we have an understanding, when we have an understanding of the process. So most people have a very difficult time trusting the process because they don't understand the process. Maybe they don't understand how calories work, what a calorie deficit is, foods that keep you satiated, carbs can help you prep more energy for your workout, right? Understanding that process and then understanding yourself, like how do we get emotional neutrality? When you understand more about yourself, you're less likely to have a visceral reaction to something when you understand your triggers, when you understand that chocolate reminds you of your past friend or anything like that and that's a trigger for you and that's why you're eating all the chocolate, right?
0:40:33.9 Ryan Kassim: So as soon as you said that, that's what I thought of is in order to get to equanimity, you have to have a total understanding of the physical process and the mental process. Once you have an understanding of both those processes, then you're better able to take emotion out of it and that's what we say all the time, the scale spikes, hey, the best thing you could do is not act out of emotion right now.
0:41:01.9 Jared Hamilton: Go sit with it.
0:41:02.7 Ryan Kassim: Right, you stick with it. But when you also... Again, when you understand why the scale spikes, why weight fluctuates, it makes it easier to have that emotional neutrality.
0:41:12.8 Jared Hamilton: Yep. Well and it's actually... I actually said, "Sit with it," not stick with it but sit with it. And it's like one of my...
0:41:17.8 Ryan Kassim: Oh, that's good. Yeah.
0:41:20.1 Jared Hamilton: 'Cause here's my question I ask every person who's really... Gives me some resistance on this and I go, How can you overcome yourself if you cannot sit with yourself? Because you and I both know all these issues, we haven't once said, your problem is you're eating too much or moving too little. This is way deeper than that. But if you can't... If everyone would agree that's listened to this point, up until this point, would agree, you to you is the problem. The issue is these triggers, the issue is these reframes, these issues are these meanings, these issues are the emotions that trigger bad actions. So if you can't sit with yourself, journal about it, talk with someone about it, sit with it, how can you overcome yourself? Imagine Ryan, if you and I are beefing and you offended me, I want us to have a great relationship but I'm not willing to talk to you about how you offended me. Right? Or if my wife and I are in a fight and I can't talk with her, we're never gonna get that issue resolved.
0:42:12.8 Jared Hamilton: So this is where I think most people miss it is like sitting with your shit is really hard, it's uncomfortable, it's a yucky feeling but it's more of a reason to do it. It's like my therapist calls it, "That's a bruise that needs poked." There's something there. And it's like my thing is like when people are like, "Well, how do I get to that place of equanimity?" You have to do exactly like what you said, is we have to know ourselves enough to see where those things are coming from but then observe what your body language is doing. Usually when people are the polar opposite of equanimous, their breathing is rapid, their posture is changing, they're acting out of emotion, they're just moving and they're going all over the place. Think of an anxious person, that's what they're doing, versus what happens is when you notice you're drifting away from equanimity and you're noticing you're triggered, you're noticing you're anxious, you're noticing you're about to make bad decisions, if you just stop, get your breathing under control, question your thoughts right now, question, Why do I feel this way? What's going on? You know what, I'm obviously not very much the epitome of equanimity right now, I'm just gonna go sit with this shit until I get back to equanimity, then it's gonna be really hard to make bad decisions.
0:43:21.8 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And I think one thing that came to mind as you said that is, I think people get into an anxious state because they, one, maybe are either unaware of the problem or they are aware of the problem and the disconnect of what's not there and that's what triggers a more anxious state. So again, sitting with your emotions, sitting with your thoughts, even taking three minutes to lay down, prop your feet up on your bed, catch your breath, listen to your breathing, not even trying to breathe in a certain way, just find your breath and listen to your breath. And if we just do that and you slow it down, it takes you from that sympathetic state to that parasympathetic state. And like you said, it's much harder to make decisions, rapid decisions when you're at a much calmer state. And again and you might even realize from that three to five minutes, you're like, Why the fuck am I overreacting because the guy cut me off on the highway? It's like, [laughter] Who fucking cares? [laughter]
0:44:32.8 Jared Hamilton: Or the scale spikes or whatever.
0:44:32.9 Ryan Kassim: Right. It's like, I'm here in this moment and I'm fine, like, I'm okay, like, I'm okay. And sometimes that's all you need to hear is when you find that silence, when you find your breath is just to say, I'm okay. There's nothing... I have the control to do what I can right now in this moment.
0:44:52.6 Jared Hamilton: I think people also like they judge it. But I think people need to understand that judging your emotions and your triggers is... This is really gross. Is literally like judging when you go to the bathroom. You know what I mean? Like one of the best analogies...
0:45:07.5 Ryan Kassim: Go on. [laughter]
0:45:07.6 Jared Hamilton: I've ever heard about... It's gross but one of the best analogies I've ever heard from my boy, Kyle Cease is, your emotions is literally just like taking a shit. It's like something in needs to come out and you need to just hold space and let nature take its course. But could you imagine if every time we had to go to the restroom, like we did the same shit, "I'm not supposed to feel... This means something bad. I'm gonna go distract, so I don't feel this." Well, that's gonna get really gross really quickly. But what happens when we feel the urge to pee? We just go, "Oh, I need to pee." You're not like, "Should I have drank the tea? Was that water? Oh my gosh, why is it this color? Holy fuck, I'm a piece of shit because I have to pee."
0:45:45.2 Jared Hamilton: We don't do that. We just go, "Oh, I need to take a leak. I drank a lot of something." That's it. And you go take a leak and you call it a day. But when it's our emotions, we judge it. We self-deprecate ourselves because of it. And we think it's wrong to experience these things but what happens when you go to the bathroom consistently? It's called being regular. But most people are emotionally constipated and they're not emotionally regular because, well, they'll let themselves feel... Sometimes not even this. Most people actually cap themselves at happiness, joy, gratitude, being present and then they're like, "You're a piece of shit if you feel sad, anxious, lonely, depressed or worried." Where it's like, what if you just need to experience all of them because feeling is healing as well?
0:46:21.8 Ryan Kassim: Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, that's... To go... Backtrack where we were before, that's one thing I learned from meditation is that every thought that pops through your head doesn't make you a god, it doesn't make you a piece of shit and it doesn't make you a saint. They're just thoughts. And it's important to recognize and acknowledge and let them pass when they pass. Sometimes they'll be with you a little bit longer, especially if you're in a very anxious state. Someone's at the gym, they're thinking everybody's watching them as they're working out. Spoiler, nobody gives a fuck and nobody's really watching or caring. Everybody just thinks they are. But those are the thoughts that creep in. And sometimes we just need to sit with it, acknowledge it, let it come and then let it go. Same thing. That's one of the best pieces of advice my therapist gave me was, if you have anxiety the worst thing you could do is say, "Nope, I'm not anxious. I'm not anxious at all. Nope, not me. I'm not an anxious person." And what happens is anxiety just grows and grows and grows because you're failing to acknowledge it and you're giving it power by saying it's not there, that's not who you are.
0:47:38.0 Ryan Kassim: But when we acknowledge that, "Yeah, anxiety is sitting right next to me. Okay, well, I'm gonna let you sit with me as long as you feel like it and then you're gonna go." So that's kind of how you have to learn to not judge the emotions but also let those emotions come and go.
0:48:00.6 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. And one of my favorite analogies for that... I love that analogy, the just sitting with you. Because I'm a triple dog dad, my favorite analogy with that is actually running from a dog. We'll name the dog Anxiety. You're running from Anxiety the dog. And I have a shepherd who doesn't get tired. And too often, running from your negative emotions is like running from a dog. We all have had experience when you run from a dog, it absolutely chases you. And it's way stronger, has more legs and has more endurance than we will ever have. But what happens when you quit running from a dog that you were running from? It'll jump on you. It'll get really bad at first. When you quit running from anxiety, the anxiety will jump on you. But then what does a dog do when you refuse to play with it? It gets bored and wonders off and chases a squirrel or finds something else it can play with. And it's the same thing with any of the negative emotions. But I love that analogy of like, you can sit here. I don't give a fuck. And you can go away when you're done. [laughter]
0:48:57.3 Ryan Kassim: Yeah, yeah. The dog one's good too because I mean, it's true 'cause sometimes anxiety doesn't just sit next to you, it attacks you. Right? And well, you just have to remember... And I've had plenty of fucking, plenty of panic attacks in my life and it's the scariest fucking thing. But there's power in understanding like we talked about, when you finally become understanding of what triggers it, why it's here, understanding that you're not dying, it sucks but it will come and it will go. So there's power in understanding all these things but you don't get to that place until you face it. You have to face it because otherwise, like you said, it just keeps chasing you and chasing you until you can't run anymore, until you're mentally and physically exhausted and because you've been running this whole time, everything you've been trying to do doesn't get done or it's left half-assed.
0:49:58.5 Jared Hamilton: It's funny, there's a different reframe that I've been using lately for me with my own, like let's say self-limiting beliefs, anxiety, worry, all of that stuff. And yeah, I've been trying to... And it's hard. And I've been trying to take that to another level where I've heard it this way and it just, it stuck with me is, not just letting it sit next to you, not just standing and letting Anxiety the dog jump on you, it's actually making friends with it. It's almost like if someone locked... It's almost like if someone... Like say something happened and there was a mandate of this person is gonna live in your house for the next 30 years. You better... You may not like him but you better fucking make friends with him, otherwise the next 30 years are gonna be hell. If you're like, "No, I hate you. Get out of my house." And they're never gonna... And they can't leave. So what I've been trying to do is with my own anxiety, my own stuff that I still work through, is not just let it be there but it's like I'm dancing with it. It's like I think it was... I heard a podcast with Tom Bilyeu's wife. She talked about like, just dance with it. Like literally, make friends with this thing.
0:50:58.6 Jared Hamilton: You can't play the, "Oh no, you're not here. Go away. I'm better than this." It's like she takes it even to a different place. I don't think this is always okay but she's like she uses it as a coach. It's like, "Okay, why am I anxious? What do I need to do to get rid of the anxiety? What do I need to do to make you like me? What do I need to do... " You know what I mean? So I've been putting even more of myself a bigger reframe on it, like how do I become friends with this thing? How do I dance with this thing? How do I love this thing? That's the one I'm struggling with is how do I love my anxiety? How do I love my, whatever? But it's a work in progress. But it's a whole different level than just running from it and acting like it's not there.
0:51:37.5 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And I think that's a good point and I think that comes with more... That's a higher level of understanding and awareness for anxiety. Because when someone's first presenting with anxiety, they have no idea what the fuck's going on. It's just like fight or flight. But when you have a higher understanding of yourself and create more awareness, then what happens is you can now understand the direction in which the anxiety is coming from and you can have actions based off that, right? So, if somebody's dating somebody and they're flirting with someone else and you get anxiety from that, then you have a clear direction of where that's stemming from, right?
0:52:21.5 Ryan Kassim: You have awareness around, Okay, maybe it's my actions that are leading to my anxiety. Maybe it's this action that created this. Or maybe it's my inaction that created this. So again, once you can let anxiety sit down next to you, then it can become that friend to say, "Hey, I'm here because you've been an asshole," [laughter] or "I'm here because you keep associating guilt as eating a cookie." So once you get to that place, anxiety is just that friend on the bench who's just like, "Hey, I'm here because I need you to do this and you haven't been doing it," or, "You're doing too much of this." So, I think that's a good point that you made. It just gives you direction on your next step and whenever we don't take that next step, he's like, "Hey, I'm still sitting here but... " [laughter]
0:53:20.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, I think the balance is when... I agree with that 100% in that things like negative emotions can be... Are actually great to have in your life, right? You don't want a life with zero anxiety and zero worry or anything like that. To be honest, anxiety is... In a lot of cases, small bouts of anxiety is what gets you to run a little faster, gets you to... To be honest, discomfort is what causes us to move forward with goals, right? If you had zero discomfort, you wouldn't want to accomplish anything. You know what I mean? So, a little bit of discomfort is great to cause action but the problem is when that's like 98% of our life is when it's nothing but anxiety. It's the dose that makes poison lethal, right? It's like fear can be a great emotion to cause you to double-check your actions and things like that but if your life is predicated only on fear, we have a problem. It's the dichotomy of these negative emotions or these perceived negative emotions. Anxiety is what causes the guy to pack his parachute and double-check that it's there and it's perfect. The guy that doesn't give a fuck, his parachute doesn't deploy. You know what I mean? So it's all about, I think the dichotomy of those emotions, we don't want a life without them.
0:54:34.8 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And I think that's definitely something we talk about clients with too, is how... Fear, right? Fear could be, "Hey, your doctor just told you your cholesterol is way too high and if it stays like this, you're gonna have to have more heart medication." That is a fear that can trigger action, right? But like you said, when the fear stays for the long-term, then now you have fear dictating all of your actions. And if you're acting out of fear for everything, then it won't lead to a positive result. It won't lead to an optimistic result. So, fear is a great short-term tool. It can get your ass moving. Like when I got laid off from my job in 2020, that was the acute action I needed to be like, "Alright, well, now I'm putting all my fucking eggs into my business. This is me up against the wall and let's go." So you could use it in the short term but if we always think that we're gonna get laid off or we're living in this complete fear environment, then you attract more fear, you attract all those things that you're scared of in your life. And kinda like we talked about before with attracting negative emotions about yourself or constantly judging your thoughts, that's where fear lives. So we can use it for acute motivation but it's not here for long-term fuel.
0:56:05.2 Jared Hamilton: No, for sure. 'Cause I'm sure you would attest to this, especially in weight loss, when we are predicated on fear and anxiety and that's our dominant emotion and thing that drives every decision in life, the more you get the thing you thought you wanted, the worse it gets 'cause now you're scared of losing it. So, now you're in what I like to call emotional incarceration. Like weight loss, for example, you wanted to lose weight so you'll be happier, right? At the end of the day... Not like losing weight makes you happy but we go after the things we want because we think our lives will be better. Well, now you lost all the weight. Now you're scared shitless gaining it back, so now the one thing you thought you wanted, you're trapped by it. So like the guy that... It all goes back to that. So I think it's all about that dichotomy where little bouts of it is good and healthy but when your life is predicated on it, it's just you could have any result in life and it will never be enough. This is something that I still struggle with. You know what I mean?
0:56:55.0 Jared Hamilton: With my goals outside of my own transformation and stuff, it's the same thing I've gotta check myself, I'm like am I still running on the fear fuel? Am I still running on anxiety because then I've noticed the more as I get the things I want, I've just got a bigger backpack on now, more pressure and more whatever, so it's such a balance.
0:57:16.4 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. And that's so true, right? And it almost stems from intention, it's like you need to check your intentions when you're feeling that heavy backpack on you, it's like well, let me work backwards now, what is my intention with this? Is my intention just to look good naked and is that enough for me to get to my goal? Or is my intention to have a better quality of life and have more energy to play with my kids? That's when you gotta check your intention at the door because if you constantly have this monkey on your back, this heavy backpack, then you need to really work backwards and say, "Well, what do I want from this? And is it still what I want?" 'Cause we change, people change, we get on certain seasons of life. Go back to your client who just had the best summer of her life in maintenance, we go through seasons of life, every season doesn't have to be a fat loss phase, every season doesn't have to be a maintenance phase.
0:58:21.9 Jared Hamilton: It shouldn't be. [chuckle]
0:58:23.2 Ryan Kassim: Right. So that's why we always have to check ourselves and say, "What is my intention with this?" Because if you're constantly feeling that fear or that drive that you're not doing enough or insert any negative emotion or anxiety, you gotta check where it's stemming from and what the intention behind it is and sometimes you just have to change that.
0:58:47.1 Jared Hamilton: I love that so much, dude. Fuck bro, this has been so good with so little notes. [chuckle] I love it. And that's the thing, it's...
0:58:52.7 Ryan Kassim: I don't have any notes. [laughter]
0:58:55.7 Jared Hamilton: Well, so my notes are mostly "record this" "hit this button." "Make sure to not... Don't... "
0:59:00.9 Ryan Kassim: Camera. [laughter] That will save you.
0:59:02.8 Jared Hamilton: Now those are my... Yeah. Yeah for real, otherwise I forget stuff like... Yeah, anyway. Yeah, whenever I make notes, they're bullets that keep... That basically are the most important things like don't forget to have Ryan tell where they can find him. I'm like, "Ah fuck!" [chuckle] So, those have been good, dude. And I knew this is how it would go when we get rolling on this stuff, so.
0:59:24.8 Ryan Kassim: Oh, yeah, dude. We just get in the zone.
0:59:27.8 Jared Hamilton: That's right. That's right.
0:59:28.9 Ryan Kassim: I'm sweating so much right now. [laughter] So I'm outside. So I'm staying with my mom for the summer and it's humid right now and your boy's sweating.
0:59:42.0 Jared Hamilton: I'm underneath a ceiling fan right now. [laughter] Holy shit, you are sweaty, bro.
0:59:45.8 Ryan Kassim: I'm disgusting. [laughter] Oh, my God, dude. But yeah, I mean I also knew that this would be a good conversation just 'cause we're both really passionate about it, we're both really curious about it and there's so many avenues you can go there, like our passion for mental health and vulnerability and communication, it's just seamless with health, it's seamless with health. So yeah, I'm not surprised, man.
1:00:20.7 Jared Hamilton: I love it. I love it. Well, where can all these wonderful motherfuckers find you?
1:00:25.5 Ryan Kassim: Yeah. So you can find me in a few places. So one, Instagram @bodybyryanfitness. Two, TikTok @ryankassim. My podcast, three, is called The Little Moments in homage to enjoying life and not forgetting about the little moments that help shape us and create us. And my website is bodybyryan.com, that's where you can find me.
1:00:50.0 Jared Hamilton: What's your website?
1:00:51.2 Ryan Kassim: Bodybyryan.com.
1:00:53.2 Jared Hamilton: I thought you said byryan and I'm like, "No, it's not." [chuckle]
1:00:55.7 Ryan Kassim: Like, "He changed it."
1:01:00.2 Jared Hamilton: Huh... bitch. [laughter]
1:01:04.6 Ryan Kassim: You didn't record that part.
1:01:05.8 Jared Hamilton: That's right. [laughter] For those listening, that's how the podcast started was, I didn't just go right into recording, we were checking audio levels and it was just like what's up, bitch?
1:01:15.8 Ryan Kassim: It was funny 'cause I never... Until like... That's why immediately as soon as I said that I go, "I feel like a fifth grader just learned how to swear," it's just like, "What's up, bitch?" [laughter]
1:01:27.2 Jared Hamilton: That's right. I swear 'cause I grew up in a really conservative household, you couldn't even say what my mom called slang words. I couldn't say darn it or freaking without getting in big trouble. So I swear that's why I cuss so much, which is probably because it's like...
1:01:47.9 Ryan Kassim: Look at me now.
1:01:48.8 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, look at me now, mom. I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
1:01:53.5 Ryan Kassim: Nobody reprimands you.
1:01:55.0 Jared Hamilton: Right. I can go get cake, I can go get birthday cake when it's not even my birthday. I'm just kidding.
1:02:00.5 Ryan Kassim: That's right. How is that? You wanna catch us up, give us a super catch up of how you're doing with your weight loss stuff right now?
1:02:06.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, my stuff is going really well. I hit a new low the other day of 223. So basically, to catch up everybody, so I made a YouTube video about the longer version of this but I noticed I was having some big issues with my own weight loss while I was keeping everything in check. Even Ryan and I were talking about this. 'Cause there's no reason someone as active as I am, my age, with my actions in place should be having to take their calories so fucking low, I had to go to 1800 calories to get anything to happen and I'm like something's off. And so I wanted to go get my hormones tested, so basically I went and got my hormones tested, my testosterone was tanked, it was a third of what it's supposed to be. My doctors were like, yeah, I should be around 1900... Not 1900, 900 to 1000. And I was barely 300 but my doctor doctor, who sucks because most doctor doctors don't like these kind of things was like, "Oh, you're fine." And I'm like, for an 80-year-old, I should not be feeling...
1:03:16.6 Jared Hamilton: 'Cause it wasn't just my numbers were bad, I looked like shit, I felt like shit, everything was terrible across the board. But she sucks and said, "Nope, you're fine and I won't give you anything." So I did the whole mom says no so you go ask dad, I went to a hormone clinic, I'm like, "What do you guys think of this?" They're like, "Fuck, no wonder you feel so bad." So I started getting on testosterone, so TRT specifically, low doses, it's not like I'm just running fucking huge cycles and I feel like a new motherfucker. Literally once I hit my stride of six months, I'm like this is how normal people feel? Holy shit. So while keeping my actions in check so it's not just an excuse to fucking eat like an asshole. So things are going great. I'm growing muscle again, getting stronger again, my joint pain has dropped, I'm losing fat, I'm getting leaner, I'm feeling 10 times better, mentally clear, fucking sharp mentally. Things across the board are good. Extra large shirts that were tight on me are now baggier on me again. My Jujutsu belt is getting longer, my GIs are getting bigger, my performance is getting nasty, getting stronger. I just feel so much better, I'm happier while being able to eat 3000 calories a day. It's great.
1:04:30.4 Ryan Kassim: Well, I think the most important thing is, it wasn't just a weight loss thing for you, it's like you had all these symptoms...
1:04:37.2 Jared Hamilton: All of these symptoms.
1:04:38.2 Ryan Kassim: That were causing you to also just not feel good, so I think that's such a huge thing. I'm glad you're overall feeling better too.
1:04:48.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, me too. Absolutely.
1:04:50.5 Ryan Kassim: Do you still need your CPAP machine?
1:04:51.8 Jared Hamilton: Yeah 'cause I still have a tongue that's way too big, so.
1:04:55.8 Ryan Kassim: Hey. [chuckle]
1:04:56.9 Jared Hamilton: No. So my sleep apnea I have is considered blockage related, so my tongue over-relaxes in my throat and it clogs my airway but I'm diving into some new research that Shelby showed me and there's actually... I don't know enough about this but apparently, there's a lot of... I'm curious Ryan, if you've ever heard anything about this. You know how we talk about mental health, physical health, joint health, have you ever heard this... You're gonna laugh. Tongue health?
1:05:24.3 Ryan Kassim: I have a tongue scraper.
1:05:26.2 Jared Hamilton: No, no, no. Not oral health. I'm talking about the musculature of your tongue and the tissues in your throat.
1:05:29.8 Ryan Kassim: No, I have not.
1:05:31.8 Jared Hamilton: Me neither. But apparently one of the biggest reasons for blockage-related sleep apnea is because the muscles in your neck and your throat and your tongue, the soft tissues are not developed enough and there's under tongue development and there are exercises you can do, think of tongue physical therapy, I know it sounds sexual as fuck and my wife actually found it and they actually make products like special straws, it's like a $45 straw that actually it requires the way that you drink with it to strengthen all the areas in your tongue. Think of a straw that is clogged to fucking hell that you have to put on the back of your tongue to suck anything and think about the musculature you'd have to use and apparently you're strengthening all... Just like anything else, you get the under-active or weak muscles strong and all of a sudden the problem goes away.
1:06:28.2 Ryan Kassim: Wow.
1:06:29.2 Jared Hamilton: And apparently there's that with sleep apnea with your tongue health, not oral health, teeth hygiene, tongue scrapers, the actual musculature deep in your throat and in your tongue and in the soft tissues just in here. So I'm doing some digging and I'm probably gonna buy a $45 straw because if it can get me off that fucking machine, I will be so happy.
1:06:51.7 Ryan Kassim: I love that for you.
1:06:52.7 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, so.
1:06:53.7 Ryan Kassim: I'm actually really curious.
1:06:55.7 Jared Hamilton: I've just never heard of anything like it but it makes so much sense.
1:06:58.8 Ryan Kassim: It makes sense.
1:07:00.6 Jared Hamilton: And there's a test you can do to see how strong your tongue is and this lady, she made a viral TikTok or Instagram reel that said, "Do this and tell me in the comments how it goes," and some people are like, "I can do that effortlessly, there's no challenge," and other people are like, "I can't do it at all." It's basically can you open your mouth with keeping the... Suctioning your tongue to the roof of your mouth, then opening your mouth and keeping your tongue on the roof of it and then how many times you can do that? And it hurts a little bit, hurts your tongue but apparently some people... You were just trying it. Apparently, some people are like, "I can do it 100 times with no issues," and other people are like, "I can't do it once," and it just shows...
1:07:40.3 Ryan Kassim: Interesting.
1:07:40.8 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, yeah. So I'm diving into... Totally unrelated to this podcast episode but I'm doing some big boy research on it and hopefully maybe getting my tongue strong as fuck. [laughter]
1:07:48.8 Ryan Kassim: I like that. Starting a new series.
1:07:52.8 Jared Hamilton: Getting my tongue getting fucking scary. Hulk tongue.
1:07:56.7 Ryan Kassim: He just picks things up with his tongue now, it's real impressive.
1:07:58.2 Jared Hamilton: Right. It's funny. Dude can suck a golf ball through a garden hose now. [laughter]
1:08:04.8 Ryan Kassim: What a party trick that is. [laughter]
1:08:07.9 Jared Hamilton: I love how we went from emotional equanimity to sucking a golf ball through a garden hose.
1:08:13.9 Ryan Kassim: Hey, it's all part of the process.
1:08:16.8 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, it's all part. That's just what you get, Jared branding 101.
1:08:19.4 Ryan Kassim: That's right. Absolutely.
1:08:21.7 Jared Hamilton: I love it.
1:08:22.3 Ryan Kassim: Absolutely.
1:08:23.2 Jared Hamilton: Awesome, dude. Well, thank you again for doing this. For those of you that are listening, definitely go connect with Ryan, follow him and tell him that you heard him on the podcast and Ryan, I love you, my man, I will talk to you soon.
1:08:33.3 Jared Hamilton: And we are back. Thank you so much for making it this far through the podcast and if you listened to the whole thing, I know you got value out of this. Be sure now... For right now moving forward, I have a few things we need to talk about. Number one, definitely if you have not subscribed to the podcast, be sure and do that because you're not gonna wanna miss the episodes I have lined up, I'm taking the podcast more serious than I ever have before. And you are not gonna wanna miss what I have planned for you, so be sure and subscribe whatever you're listening to it on. If you like to watch your podcast, especially interviews like this, if you would rather watch like actually Ryan and I interact or whoever the guest I have or even if it's just a solo episode, just me, I have all the podcast episodes on my YouTube, so I'll leave a link below for that. Be sure and if you will, I have my one ask is this, if you could go and leave me a review, it would mean a ton to me and reviews make such a difference in the podcast rankings.
1:09:17.8 Jared Hamilton: And I'm telling you guys, I put a lot of time, a lot of money and a lot of attention into the podcast and my only one ask is for you to go review the podcast, give me a five-star review and tell me your honest thoughts of the podcast if it helps change your life, things like that because the more you do that, the more the iTunes or Spotify or whoever's gonna tell everyone else how good it is, which means it's gonna help more people. If the podcast has helped you, it's not fair for that to stay in your head, we gotta get this to everyone else as well, so that's my one ask. Now, I have some other cool stuff in the description for you 'cause I don't wanna just leave you hanging here, the last thing I ever want is for you to feel like ah, fired up off of the podcast episode and then like what do I do now? So I have a bunch of stuff for you below, so before you sign off on here, you'll wanna check out the podcast description, so from today's episode, I have all of my...
1:10:04.3 Jared Hamilton: I have all Ryan's contact information below where you can follow him, shoot him a message, say what's up, tell him that you listened to the podcast and heard him, all that kinda thing, then I have a few other things for you. Number one is I have my fat loss checklist for you, so if you're kinda newer to this or the normal fat loss stuff overwhelms you and you're not sure what way to turn or where to go, I actually put together a fat loss checklist, it's a five-day free email course that I basically walk you through the A to Zs of weight loss and how to change your life and make this simple as possible and you'll go through it and you're like, "Holy shit, this is what I've been missing this whole time?" So definitely check that out. The next thing you're gonna need, that you're gonna wanna have and I have in there for you is most people who are going through this game, the reason they're struggling is because they're on their own, okay. We all need a community, we all need a group of people holding us accountable, a place, a home base almost.
1:10:51.7 Jared Hamilton: So where you can go to to get loved on, get support, get your questions answered and to get your cup full. Well, here's the cool thing, I have that for you totally for free. So down in the description, you can, if you're not part of it yet, you'll wanna join. I have my Fat Loss Simplified Facebook community, it's a private group, you have to add yourself and we'll accept you and it's an amazing little spot because it's basically where I'm putting some of the best content that I have, my entire staff is in it and we have the most amazing community of people who are dieting from the inside out, who are doing this the right way, who are all moving forward.
1:11:21.8 Jared Hamilton: I'm telling you, if you do not have someone in your corner or a group of people in your corner rooting for you, it's one of the biggest game changers, it's the biggest thing. So it's totally free to join and it's your home base, so I'll leave that down there as well. What else is down there? My smaller socials are down there, if you're not following me there, like Instagram, TikTok and all that and then the other dope thing I have for you is because you are a podcast listener and I value you, you have a special place in my heart, if you're willing to listen to me talking into a mic for an hour, I have a special coaching offer for you because don't get me wrong, if you are kicking ass, taking names, thriving and crushing it, we don't need to fix what's not broken, so if that's you, don't worry about any of this.
1:11:58.9 Jared Hamilton: But if you're not doing so hot, if you're struggling, if you're arguably suffering, if you've been doing this diet game on and off for the last few years or few decades even, where it's like you're starting to lose hope, you feel like you'll never make it, your clothes are not getting any looser and you're just struggling, especially with this inner game like Ryan and I talked about a lot about it, talked about a lot of deep stuff and if you're struggling with your relationship with food, so you're binge eating a lot, so you're feeling guilt and shame on date night, like those kinda things, I'm telling you, this is one of the biggest reasons coaching can change your life. We've taken people that have struggled in 10 years and gotten them more progress in 90 days, I'm telling you it's a game changer. So if that's you and you're like I think I like to look into getting some help and similar one-on-one attention, I have a cool offer for you because you're coming from the podcast.
1:12:40.7 Jared Hamilton: I basically am letting you do a couple of things, I'm number one, giving you about $4000 of stuff for free just because you're gonna come from the podcast with coaching and then number two, I'm letting you bypass anyone else that's in line and getting right on my team schedule because normally, we have a pretty big drawn out process to apply for coaching but because you are coming from the podcast, you already more than likely get it and you're the kinda people we wanna work with, so I think the calendar is straight up in the description where you can go straight to my team, schedule, this way we can set up a quick little call and go over everything and learn about you, then we can talk about potentially the possibility of coaching. 'Cause my thing is this, we want coaching to... We want to, number one, make sure that we're a good fit because we don't just take anyone who has a credit card, we have to make sure that we think you're a good fit for the program. I actually... My guy Conner, who was doing the calls, his sole role is to protect our coaching program, that way, we're not...
1:13:33.9 Jared Hamilton: 'Cause that's the thing, we have a special culture inside of our coaching, there's specific kinds of people we work with and there are specific kinds of people that we don't work with and part of his role is to protect the coaching program and make sure that you're the right fit for this and then make sure that you are clear and you have all your questions answered and you understand what's going into it and all of that, so the next step for that is you schedule that call with him and then he'll go over everything with you and whatnot and then we can get you rolling hopefully, assuming things are a good fit and makes sense. And then because you're coming from the podcast, assuming you get accepted, you're gonna get about $4000 worth of stuff totally for free, which is pretty cool. So that's it. Otherwise, I hope you enjoyed the podcast episode today, I really hope you did. Like I said, be sure and subscribe and leave a review wherever you're listening it from. I love you and I will talk to you next time.
[music]
Episode Synopsis
Catchup with Ryan:
Ryan had been living in New York City for the past two years, and with his lease ending, he took the opportunity to assess whether or not he loved where he lived, if he was happy in that environment, and if he wanted to stay.
Ultimately, while there were aspects of New York that he loved, the high-stress atmosphere wasn’t right for him, so he moved back to Connecticut.
Ryan plans to do a West Coast tour, where he will stay for one to two months in different cities to find where he wants to plant roots. It was Ryan’s original goal when he started online coaching to be able to work from anywhere, so with this west coast tour, he will be achieving one of his long-term goals.
About Ryan:
Ryan has been a personal trainer, nutrition coach, health, and wellness coach for close to 10 years. He graduated from the University of Rhode Island and had sought a career in health administration but struggled to find employment. He started working as a personal trainer and over time discovered that mental health is an extremely important aspect of fitness.
As Ryan puts it, when you have a strong behavioral and mental foundation, it only adds to your physical foundation. He came to this realization after about 4 years in the fitness and health industry.
At his lowest point, he struggled with depression and anxiety, despite being in the best shape of his life. He began going to therapy, which he has continued for 5 years.
Going through therapy has changed his life, his actions, his thoughts, communication, how he interacts with others, and how he coaches.
In his coaching career, Ryan goes beyond calories in and calories out and puts a focus on mental health and its impact on your weight loss journey.
Awareness and Balancing Mental Health with Goals:
Ryan believes that developing the balance between achieving your goals and focusing on your mental health starts with awareness.
Many people struggle to understand themselves and appropriately identify and understand their emotions and their triggers. With each of his clients, Ryan spends the first few months helping them gain awareness, identifying who they are, what triggers them, recognizing, understanding, and working through their emotions.
For clients and individuals who focus on things like cutting out various foods or nutrients, Ryan wants to help them understand that this is an avoidance tactic. Avoidance is a sign of anxiety, and the cutting out of one thing may help you work toward your goal—or not—but without working on the root of the problem, you’ll constantly be looking for the next thing to distract you.
As Ryan says, if you’re sick, you can treat symptoms, but ultimately you need to find out what is wrong, and it’s the same in health and wellness. Reexamination of yourself and your goals is vital.
Something both Ryan and Jared notice amongst their clients is that the ones who are very focused on the goal of weight loss, who want to rush past the phase of dieting from the inside out—the mental health game—tend to struggle to achieve the weight loss they desire, while the clients who are willing to let go of their weight loss goal and work on improving their mental health and their relationship with food wind up being the most successful.
Doing both mental work and weight loss at the same time is possible, but it takes full commitment to both goals, and it’s important to understand that you don’t have to do it all at once.
Ryan often helps his clients come to understand that it’s okay to be at a maintenance level with your diet, working on strength, getting healthy, and reflecting inwards, building a solid foundation for you to achieve that long-term weight loss goal.
People often operate under the assumption that weight loss is good and weight loss is progress, when in reality, maintenance is progress too. Sometimes eating a pizza is progress, sometimes not eating a pizza is progress, and different seasons of your life require different phases.
Anticipatory Anxiety:
Ryan believes that anticipatory anxiety—anticipating events that haven’t happened yet—is a huge hurdle many people face.
For example, you just started a diet and already think you will fuck up on that diet. Learning to recognize and reframe those anticipatory thoughts is key in one’s weight loss journey.
Anticipatory anxiety may occur because of ingrained habits and thought patterns that you’ve had for a long time.
To combat this, you need to reframe your thoughts, recognize that you are in control in this moment, and get away from worrying about the future and focus on the present.
Clients need to be careful with reframing as it can also change positive situations into negative situations because of your ingrained thought patterns.
For example, if your measurements go down but your weight remains level, you may mistake this for a lack of progress, however, measurements decreasing while your weight remaining the same is a great place to be. Therefore, learning who you are, recognizing your thought patterns, and working on appropriately reframing your thoughts is vital to anyone trying to lose weight.
Not working on reframing your thought patterns is what gets someone caught in cycles of yo-yo dieting and self-inflicted mental abuse for years.
Finding peace in weight loss:
When Ryan imagines someone who is starting a weight loss journey, he imagines someone who is on high alert—there are many internal issues that person is facing, on top of the goal of losing weight. To find peace during this process, one thing you need is empathy.
Developing empathy for yourself means giving yourself grace, understanding, and forgiveness.
Clients will often feel anxiety about small mistakes—or not being 100% perfect—when releasing those feelings would be more productive. This comes back to the idea of equanimity and being unconcerned about the timeline of your weight loss and understanding that this is a journey that doesn’t need to be completed by a certain date.
Coming to emotional neutrality in your weight loss journey starts with understanding the process and understanding yourself. Once you understand the physical and emotional process, you can take the emotions out of it. If the scale spikes but you understand why the scale fluctuates, you can prevent yourself from negative emotional reactions, and sit with that situation. If you can’t sit with yourself, and your emotions, you can’t overcome them.
Ryan and Jared believe that for a client who wants to lose weight, knowing yourself and understanding how you’re reacting to things—noticing you’re anxious, questioning why you are feeling a certain way, why you are making or about to make a bad decision—will afford you the opportunity to stop yourself and work through your emotions.
Ryan often notes that taking a moment to just breathe and listen to your breath gives you the space to calm down, realize you’re okay, and that you are in control at this moment.
It’s important to not judge your thoughts or emotions—just let yourself think and feel—and let them pass.
When we acknowledge our emotions and let them sit without judgment, we can learn to let them come and go. Sometimes an emotion, like anxiety, will attack you, but when you face and acknowledge your emotions, even when they are overwhelming, you can understand that those emotions will come and they will go.
Jared and Ryan also want clients to understand that negative emotions have a place and can be helpful. A little discomfort and fear can help you start or work towards a goal, or double-check your actions, but you must find a balance between letting go of and embracing those emotions.
Fear can trigger action—like if a doctor tells you that your cholesterol is too high—that fear lets you know it’s time to make a change. When your entire life is predicated on fear, however, you end up attracting more into your life and becoming imprisoned by your fears and negative emotions.
Ensuring that you don’t become trapped by your fears means understanding your intentions for your weight loss journey and how your goals and intentions evolve over time. When you find yourself caught in a constant anxious state, it’s important to take a moment to assess your intentions so you can allow yourself to keep progressing.
Catch up on Jared’s Weight Loss:
A while back, Jared noticed that he was having an issue with his weight loss. He was having to cut his calories very low, despite his activity level. So, Jared went to have his hormones tested and found out his testosterone had tanked. He wasn’t looking or feeling good, so he started taking low doses of (doctor prescribed) TRT. He is now losing fat and gaining muscle again. He’s still using his CPAP machine, but is hopeful that he has found a way to eventually get himself off it.
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