Adam Schafer on Self-Reflection, Overcoming Insecurities, & Avoiding Dietary Dogma | DFIO Ep.260
About Today’s Episode:
I’ve got a really great episode for you guys today. Our guest is Adam Schafer from Mind Pump.
I got a ton of really great feedback from you guys when I had Sal on the show, so I wanted to get Adam on here for you guys as well.
We talk about a lot of things in this episode. Adam is a father, so we talk about how to set an example when it comes to health, food, and nutrition for your kids. We talk about Adam’s background and how Mind Pump grew. We talk about how to be educated, but not get stuck in a camp of “I can only eat this way” or “I can only train this way.”
We get into so much and it’s all so good. If you’ve been struggling, I know this is going to be a great episode for you.
Let’s get into it!
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction & About Today’s Episode
02:28 Our Sponsors
07:13 About Adam
11:40 Lessons From Clients
19:34 Ideologies and Self-Reflection
21:36 Avoiding Training and Nutritional Dogma
28:45 The Balance between Optimal and Practical
47:16 Fitness, Health, and Building a Strong Food Foundation with Your Kids
59:39 What Adam is Fired Up About
1:07:43 Jared's Outro and How to Apply for Coaching
Transcription (click to expand)
Ep. 260 Adam Schafer
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Adam Schafer on Self-Reflection, Overcoming Insecurities, & Avoiding Dietary Dogma | DFIO Ep.260
0:00:00.0 Adam Schafer: If you do a good enough job people will ask questions and if people aren't asking questions then reflect on yourself. Like if it's so good it's so life-changing it's so important it's so everything it's like okay if it is then you should exude that. I should see you and go what do you got that I don't have and I want some of that and I'm going to ask you and if I don't that's a reflection on yourself that you ain't walking the walk.
0:00:27.1 Jared Hamilton: What's going on friends welcome back to a brand new episode of Dieting from the Inside Out. Welcome to the show. If you're new here my name is Jared Hamilton and I am your host every single week. Now today is a really cool episode I have a very special guest. I have coming on here Adam Schafer from Mind Pump. So I got a lot of great feedback from from the the Mind Pump episode I did with Sal, with Sal Di Stefano, when he was on here. A lot of you guys really really resonated with that but I wanted to have Sal... Or Mind Pump's other host on here, Adam Schafer. Adam is a ball of energy a wealth of knowledge and just an amazing human, and we had a great conversation. In this episode we got into a lot, the conversation went all over the place to be honest. We got into talking about how to how to set the example when it comes to health food nutrition and your head space around this stuff for your kids. Because Adam's a father and I wanted to dig into that because I know a lot of you guys struggle with like where's that balance with your own kids. Like I don't want them being scared of food or or obsessed with about dieting but I also don't want them growing up to be unhealthy and overweight and things like that. So we talked about that.
0:01:28.0 Jared Hamilton: We talked about Adam's background and what how how he got to where he is and how their show grew and how it got to where it's at now. And then we also talked about how to basically, what I would label if I had to put it simply, how to never struggle with this stuff. How to become educated around the right way to do things and the best way to go about this stuff for your goals. How to not have to be stuck to like what we would call like a camp of like the key. Like a group of like, "Well I can only train this way." Or, "I can only eat this way." Or, "I can only conduct myself this way." Like how to be completely... How to put? how to be completely like N=1 for yourself with all of this stuff. So you don't have to be stuck in these crazy camps of training nutrition or methodology or whatever. And then we got into a whole bunch of stuff. Like all this kind of stuff. Went all over the place but it was so good. I think especially if you're coming from a place of like struggling really having a hard time losing weight keeping it off and feeling trapped by everything I think this will be a really cool episode. Excuse me.
0:02:25.6 Jared Hamilton: So yeah you'll enjoy this. Be sure and stick around for the whole thing. Before we get into it, big thank you to the sponsors of the show sponsor number one is FlexPro Meals, because we need convenience more than anything. To be honest that's one of the biggest issues a lot of people have with reaching their goals is because a lot of the times the methodologies aren't convenient. Or you live a very not so chill life or you're always in drive-thru. You're always taking kids to soccer practice or work meetings running over. Overtime, school, household stuff like it's just unpredictability, travel like the whole nine yards. Well if that's your life it's just not practical to think things are going to stay chill all the time. So we need a plan for when things are a little crazy and for me that's... Because my life is the same thing just without kids.
0:03:09.9 Jared Hamilton: But that's where FlexPro Meals really come in handy for me. I always have them in my fridge where they're just on deck and ready to go. That way whether we forget to make food or we're behind on making food or be honest we just don't want the food we made. Or like for me I go I'll be just getting out and about leaving or I'll need to take them traveling with me or whatever the case is. It makes it so convenient to have amazing tasting food that is calorie and protein friendly, that's made by a chef, that keeps me out of drive-thrus and that's that's just going to help me go towards my goals. And that's why that's why I'm using my my life as a kind of an analogy for this.
0:03:44.5 Jared Hamilton: Because it can be the same thing for you. We work with a lot of busy people all the time and that's one of the biggest issues. It's like, man I've got kids. I've got this, I've got that. I'm always in drive-thrus, I'm always stopping in the gas stations. Well like let's put something in place that's going to help you and save you more money 'cause... Well especially after my discount on FlexPro is even... Is cheaper than going through any drive-thru. So definitely want to check them out flexpromeals.com, or there's a link in the description. But if you use my code HamiltonTrained, it'll save you an additional 20% at checkout. Just making your life around nutrition way easier and tastes really good.
0:04:17.3 Jared Hamilton: Next sponsor of the show is 1st Phorm. I have on if you're watching the Youtube, subtle plug. I'm wearing my 1st Phorm Christmas shirt. All my friends make fun of me because I wear Christmas clothes like all year round. But I think we all need a little more jolly. But big thank you to 1st Phorm you guys know that supplements are not the end-all be-all they are not the... I don't... I'm not a fan when people over glorify supplements. They are exactly what they are meant to be with... Like why their name is a supplement because they are meant to be supplemental. They are not meant to be the best meal of the day or they're not meant to be the overarching theme of whatever. I always hate it when people predicate all their success around the... Or even a program around a group of supplements.
0:04:57.5 Jared Hamilton: Supplements are to only fill the gaps that you are missing with food. If you're hiting all of your markers with food, more power to you and you don't need them. But the reality is most people don't... Aren't doing that. Most people aren't getting enough protein. We know how pivotal protein is for weight loss. Most people are not getting in the five to seven servings a day of fruits and vegetables, and we all know how important micronutrients are. So things like multivitamins or a green supplement can really help with that. All these different areas, right? A lot of times like we need a pick-me-up. Whether we need a little bit of caffeine here or a better pre-work out there, whatever the case is. And that's the thing is if these help your overall adherence and they help fill the gaps you you need filled they're pivotal, but the problem is not all supplements are created equal. A lot of times unfortunately people go through they order the supplements, they either go onto Amazon or go into their supplement store and go, "What would taste the least shitty and what's cheapest."
0:05:47.1 Jared Hamilton: The problem is you're never going to get the... Get the help that you need with that way. Generally the best and the cheapest never go hand in hand. And I'm not saying you have to spend like an arm and a leg or your life savings so to speak on this stuff. But I am saying you do get what you pay for and unfortunately with how unregulated the supplement market is, there can be some shitty products on the market for a really long time before anyone finds out. Like I can't tell you how many companies are have their products on shelves at GNCs, Vitamin Shoppes or in Walmarts and they were... And they end up having a big like lawsuit and getting ripped off the shelves because either the ingredients weren't safe, or labels were completely inaccurate and lying.
0:06:23.8 Jared Hamilton: Like it said there was 20 grams of protein in that scoop and there's really like 11. Things like that and that's a really scary part. So this is why you don't want to... You got... You have to be careful how you shop for this stuff. So with 1st Phorm I want to make sure you guys and our client base and our community has a place that they can go to that we know we're going to get taken care of. We know they're getting the best stuff, we know it's not made in someone's basement, and things are third-party tested and taken care of and things like that. So if that's your cup of tea and you want to look into supplements or you want to upgrade what you're currently taking, definitely check out 1st Phorm. But go to the link in the description that does support me in the channel it means a ton. As well as if you're not quite sure where to get started with supplements and you want to make sure you're taking the right stuff there is a Youtube link down there where I had... It's my supplement video where I kind of give you the rundown on it.
0:07:06.6 Jared Hamilton: But that is it for the sponsor section of the show. Let's get into the interview with Adam and we'll talk to you in just a second.
0:07:13.6 Jared Hamilton: So, you threw out a big gauntlet on instagram the other day saying you're gonna beat Sal's interview.
[overlapping conversation]
0:07:22.5 Adam Schafer: I don't know what it is. Maybe I promote it better than him I don't know what. But we have this like inner competition whenever we end up doing podcasts that are similar or whatever. We talk shit to each other and I'm always asking the people afterwards like, "Let me know. Let me see how it's doing. If it's performing, if it's not performing better than Sal I'll push it harder." so.
0:07:40.7 Jared Hamilton: That's hilarious. I love it.
0:07:42.0 Adam Schafer: We have a lot of fun, fun competition, man. It's one of the things... One of my favorite things about those guys is everybody is competitive but you you want to see each other win too. So it's not like he's wanting me to fail or vice versa, you know?
0:07:55.3 Jared Hamilton: Yeah you've always been pretty competitive, right? Because you were like an athlete growing up and stuff weren't you?
0:08:00.1 Adam Schafer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean so is he though. Even though he's not like an athlete like he's he's just competitive in different ways, right? So... And Doug too. I mean Justin and I have the athletic backgrounds, and so we're we're competitive via sport. But, man Sal and... Sal and Doug have their own level of competition too which is a big reason why the business has thrived is because you've got the four of us that that want to win at all costs, right?
0:08:25.5 Jared Hamilton: I love that. Now do you think, from your opinion on that, like... I think so many people will go through like high school or college and their competitive stuff is all like sports related. But then they go into the... They're they're done with that and they have nothing to be competitive about.
0:08:38.2 Adam Schafer: I mean if you... If it's something... So part of what actually drew me to training was actually the competitive side of it, right? So I didn't know that like getting into it. I thought personal training would be a cool a cool avenue to make some side money. That was... Like initially when I got into it I was like, "Oh this would be cool." I wanted to be like a PT like a physical therapist when I was going to school for kinese. And I thought, "Okay personal training would be like a cool side gig I could make some money off of it." And I fell in love with it. Part of what I fell in love with it was how competitive... I was a part of a big box gym, 24 Hour Fitness, for years. And it's very sales driven and a lot of the way you get paid is commissions and bonuses and spiffs for hitting certain milestones. And I actually just... I thrived in that environment because it took me back to playing sports and how much I loved to play sports.
0:09:35.9 Adam Schafer: So I always... If someone told me that they were a ex-athlete and they love sports, I think there's tremendous value in finding a career path that has that, right? And not all like gyms are like that, so it's not necessarily a direct correlation with every trainer is... Gets this competitive side. But we were blessed and lucky to be introduced to a gym, like 24-hour fitness that was heavily sales motivated and that aspect of training I really enjoy. So I guess you could say I was drawn to the sales aspect of personal training more than I was even training clients early on. And I attribute a lot of the success that I had to that that side of the business. Because I was an okay trainer. Like I was young I didn't even finish my kinese, I had one national certification.
0:10:26.7 Adam Schafer: Most of the trainers that worked underneath me were more experienced, better coaches and better trainers. What I was good at was the business side. I was really... I was really good with helping them build their business. And so I kind of stayed in my lane. I wasn't dumb I wasn't trying to tell the kid who was fresh out of his masters or PhD in kinese and tell them that I know more than they do when it comes to the human body or how it works. Instead, I taught them about business and how to build their business and that was what I was really good at. Later after years of being a personal trainer did I start to get pretty good at training. And that was seven, eight national certifications later and almost a decade under my belt of trial and error. And then I'd say I was a better trainer. But early on I was... I don't think I was a good trainer even though I was... I was held as if I was a good trainer.
0:11:22.0 Jared Hamilton: That's so cool man. I didn't realize our... I didn't realize our backgrounds were so similar. Like I was a home school kid, I studied kinesiology with the intent of becoming a PT, didn't. I stopped that because I found personal training, like the exact same. That's dope as fuck.
0:11:36.9 Adam Schafer: Oh, yeah.
0:11:37.7 Jared Hamilton: So I'm curious one of the things... Like I didn't... I didn't realize this until like like your guys' assistant sent me over like some of your bio stuff and whatnot. One of the things that you mentioned in there that you valued, so many lessons that you learned from your clients. Was there any that stood out to you? Like off the top of your head like... And stuff like that?
0:12:00.1 Adam Schafer: Well I tell you one of the... One of the best things that I ever did was train clients of mine that had different ideologies or political social views than I did. So I had a lot... I got a lot from training with men and women that were 40, 50 years old that grew up totally different than me. I grew up in a very religious conservative type of home. And so I moved to the Bay area and I'm surrounded by a lot of atheists, a lot of people that were very liberal, that just had a different way of viewing the world than I did. And I was like a sponge, I really enjoyed that. And so... And some of the ideas it changed the way I thought about things, but then it also solidified what I believed in other things. And so being open to hearing out people with different ideas, and then when you when you train enough people that have been... Most... Anybody who's paying for a personal trainer is probably somewhat successful. It's not cheap to hire a personal trainer.
0:13:05.5 Adam Schafer: So most of the people that I was... Had the opportunity to coach were very successful, and they all were successful in different ways. Everything from entrepreneurs, to highly educated executives, to day traders. To teachers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, like you name it. And so to be able to spend hours and hours with these people that had all their different ways of acquiring wealth, I found that just unbelievably fascinating. And really all that time it's like it's really a journey of finding yourself. I think that so much of myself has changed with my own... My own beliefs around money and success and the things that I wanted. And a lot of that has to do with having the opportunity to be around these great minds and allow that to evolve and change. And so I mean I think that I... For about two or three years I had a client that I think pretty much shit on every idea that I had as an entrepreneur.
0:14:09.9 Jared Hamilton: Really?
0:14:11.0 Adam Schafer: Yeah. And I think early on like that frustrated me. But years later I would really grow to appreciate that. Because they weren't just going to tell me... Sometimes like your parents or people that are you and your circle just will tell you what you want to hear. Or because they don't want to hear anymore. Where she was great. Like I would tell her, "Oh I have this idea." And then she would just like totally crap on it. But it but what it did for me was it allowed me to look at things through a different lens.
0:14:36.5 Adam Schafer: I would look at things and go like, "Oh this is a great idea or a great business I should do." And she taught me to look at things different. Like I'll never forget one time we had this business that I was a part of. And this was really early, early 2000s. We had came up with this design and it was basically an ergonomical office chair. And this is before any of the... What you see on the internet now. Remember this is 20 something years ago. So this type of shit really didn't exist and we were kind of on the front end of this probably a little bit early. And this chair, what it was, it was a... Looked like just like a nice leather office chair but the shaft of it was set. And the engineers designed it on this basically ball and axis. So it had about a 15 degree play in all directions. And then the seat was sat at like like a 15 degree angle. So you weren't completely at 90 right or 45 I'd say. So you're like at 45. So your hip flexors wouldn't get shortened and tightened so much. And then you had this 15 degree of instability, so you had to kind of activate your core while you sat at a desk.
0:15:49.0 Adam Schafer: And we had like all the research to show how many more calories you would burn per day. How much that would improve your posture.
0:15:53.9 Adam Schafer: Wow. That's brilliant.
0:15:55.0 Adam Schafer: Yeah no I mean I thought it was brilliant, right? So and we were... I was a part of the sales team that was trying to push it out and do it. And long story short it never went anywhere and we didn't have any success from it even after all the investors pumped some money into it and try to get it off the ground. And I remember she was one of the people that would... That told me like, "This is a terrible idea." And I remember being like, "How is this... This is a brilliant idea. This is... Like people need this." Like there's nothing else out there at that time. And I remember telling me like, "Listen." And I'm like... It's one thing to build something that you're you're passionate about that you that you think is a good idea. It's another thing to understand markets and consumer... The way consumers buy things. She goes, "You'd be far better off... " I remember telling me this, it was like so like not appealing to me. She's like, "You know what you could do is make giant oversized silverware or doorknobs."
0:16:52.8 Adam Schafer: And I'm like, "What?" And she's like, "Yeah." She goes, "That's a growing market. There is not enough people that are servicing all the people that are obese that they have massively... Like morbidly obese people that have fingers that they can't type and use things or grab things."
0:17:07.2 Jared Hamilton: Oh, wow.
0:17:08.6 Adam Schafer: And she's like, "And that market is growing exponentially. And those people are willing to spend that money and have it shipped to their house and do those things." And she's like, "That's a better idea than your idea." And I remember like being so frustrated with hearing that but later... And ignoring her and still going through our idea and then it falling on its face and it never working out. And I... It was a really bad time this is like right after the dot-com bubble. And so we were at kind of a downtime for the market. The chair... Office chairs are already reasonably expensive. One to three hundred dollars this... $100 to $300. This chair was going to be more expensive than that. So in a time when the economy was in a recession here I am trying to go to a place like Deloitte & Touche and say, "Hey let's take your 500 chairs." And I'm like, "They're better for your employees for all these reasons but then you're gonna have to spend so much more money."
0:18:01.7 Jared Hamilton: Sure.
0:18:01.8 Adam Schafer: "To get these benefits." And because no one was really doing it and... But later on... I mean there's stuff now you can look up like ergonomical office chairs and stuff and they have like stability balls that are built into it. That all came later on and there's like ideas that are similar to what we did that ended up working out. So I mean I guess that one of the big lessons for me in that. One, understanding consumers. Two, also understanding timing in a market. I'm often asked about what I think about Mind Pump if we'd have the same kind of success today if we actually literally started from the very beginning, like right now. And I don't know it's hard to say. I think that we got started in the space early enough to allow us to get reps in and get good at what we're doing. And it's getting more competitive now. So it's hard to say. Doug thinks so. Doug thinks that we have this X factor that it's hard to emulate. And he's like, "There's... People can give the same advice as you guys. But the the chemistry between the three adds an X factor to the show." And so we debate it back and forth. It's a fun debate and exercise. But timing in business is everything. You can have a great idea and and terrible timing in the economy and it fall flat on its face. You could have a terrible idea but a great timing that it hits the market and you can become rich so yeah.
0:19:27.0 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, absolutely. Jason and I were actually on a call today talking about that exact thing with some stuff I'm working on.
0:19:32.3 Adam Schafer: Oh, really?
0:19:33.2 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. One of things that... Well, first of all, that's so cool that you can have the awareness to do all of that, especially back then. 'Cause I think, especially in the day and age now with politics and crazy bullshit going on left and right, the thought of going... Like when you said you really enjoyed just learning from all these other people and people shooting down ideas left and right and it makes you open your mind and all this stuff, that's unheard of right now. Everyone's like, "Oh, I prefer dark chocolate and you like regular chocolate. Go fuck yourself. You're dead to me." It's the most polar opposite.
0:20:07.5 Adam Schafer: Yeah, it's unfortunate too, because I really think that's... Having the attitude of... When I believe strongly in something, those are the things that I look to challenge and question the most, which is really tough to do. If you believe strongly in something, you tend to attach yourself to that ideology, and then you dig your heels in or stick your flag that this is me, this is what I believe. Versus if I feel that way, like if I feel strongly about it, those are the things I tend to investigate the most or seek out the opposing ideas to that. To me, that's where the most growth happens is in those times when you have a belief that you believe so strongly in that it gets upended. And if you go your whole life just confirming your own bias all the time, like expect little growth in that. I figured that out early that that was a hack. So I really do enjoy people that disagree with me, which is... Sometimes I come off as a disagreeable type of personality, but that's because I embrace it, it's not because I like to argue or fight or disagree.
[laughter]
0:21:18.8 Adam Schafer: I enjoy... I'm okay with being wrong. Some people, their whole world shatters if their ideas get blown up in their face. Where it's like, I'm totally okay with being like, "Oh shit. I totally thought the opposite of that. I'm wrong. That's amazing. Now, I know." Right?
0:21:35.7 Jared Hamilton: Yeah. I think this is actually a beautiful segue into nutrition and training and all of this, 'cause that's why we see a lot of people struggle. They're so married to the old ideology of something at surface levels, "Oh, carbs are bad," or, "I have to train like Arnold did," or whatever the case is and they're not willing to be wrong and open their mind to be like, "Oh, maybe there is a better way."
0:21:56.7 Adam Schafer: Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. No, I think that when it comes to training and nutrition, God, that's so unique and individualized to the person. That I think not only are you wrong about what you think is right most of the time with it, is that even when you're right and something works for you for a period of time, many times that doesn't work for you later on. And so, training and nutrition is very nuanced and... It's the reason why we both have jobs. If it was so easy, then there wouldn't be a need for trainers and coaches to help guide people through this journey. But there's things that I think worked for me in the past that did serve me well but no longer serve me anymore. Or there's times where somebody will do a diet, and because what they were doing before was so horrible, so any structure at all shows them great success. Because they had great success there, they believe that that's the way because it's proven to them that's the way, when in reality, it was like, well, it's less about that was the way and it was more about that what you were doing before was not the way. And because you've eliminated some things that were in your diet or your behaviors before and you've now changed this way, that's really what it is.
0:23:14.2 Adam Schafer: And that's... We're... We tend to gravitate towards groups and we're social creatures, and so we want to latch on to these diet cults or training cults that people promote and share like, "This is the way to train, this is the way to eat." And then you switch to that and you have success and then you believe like, "Oh, this is it. This is the way to do things because I've seen the success that way." And what they don't realize is that, it has very little to do actually with the new training program you're following or the new nutrition plan you're following, it had more to do with what you were doing before and what you've cut out or eliminated or changed that matters more than this one way or philosophy around nutrition and training. And so, when I used to coach people, I used to love to take them through a whole myriad of different training philosophies and diet philosophies so that I could not only teach them all of them, but then also help them unpack what it is that... We would go through the vegan diet for a while and I'd say, "How do you feel?" And then based off how they feel, I would explain to them why that probably is based off of where they came from and what we're doing now, and I'd say, "Listen, it's not about the diet per se, it's that we were eating these types of foods, your body was craving this, you weren't getting enough of it, you're now feeding enough of it, and so it's rewarded you."
0:24:44.5 Adam Schafer: "So now that you've got that down and you know how that feels, well, let's go try something like this Paleo or Mediterranean diet, and then let's run that for a little bit and then tell me how you're feeling." "Oh man, this one I feel so good." I said, "Well, that's because when we were running that vegan diet, you were pretty low protein. Now we're hitting your protein intake and you're seeing muscle come on and you feel really good. It's not because of the Mediterranean diet, it's because that other diet you were having a hard time hitting your protein intake, and now that we're following this Mediterranean diet, we're doing better with that protein. Okay, now, let's take it to the whole extreme on the other side. Let's go ketogenic or go carnivore, and then see how you feel from that." And so, yeah, I would love to take clients through that and then try and teach them what it is they feel, what it's most likely, why, because of. And then understanding that you don't have to live in these rigid rules of, we have to follow this diet. It's like, these are structures that people have created for you to have, like guidelines to follow, but don't fall in the religious trap of, you have to follow this one.
0:25:48.9 Adam Schafer: There's nothing wrong with being mostly vegan, but then you add some fish and chicken into your diet every once in a while. It's like, we have this idea that like, "Oh, you can't call yourself a vegan right before the community if you go have fish or chicken every once in a while, and then we're gonna ostracize you." It's like, who cares? It's like, I'm gonna... I do like some of the things that I get from the benefits of that, but then I also recognize I struggle with getting protein, so I need to find a way to do that. So maybe there's a balance, maybe there's somewhere... Same thing goes like, "Oh, the carnivore diet, I felt so good because my autoimmune was suppressed." And I'm like, "Okay, well, we probably don't have to eliminate all carbohydrates for you to feel that way. Maybe some of the starchy carbs that you were having, or maybe the processed foods that you were having, those types of carbs were maybe causing some issues in your gut, so maybe we don't have to go full carnivore. Maybe we'd do a high fat, high protein, but then we introduce things like rice or things like sweet potato or yams, which tend to be okay for most people's systems and their gut." And then go like, "Okay, so you're not really all carnivore, you're... You eat mostly that way, but then you allow this."
0:26:50.4 Adam Schafer: "Well, what does that mean? Where do I fall? What group am I in?" It's like... So that's my spiel on diet culture because we tend to wanna put ourselves in these boxes, and luckily, I have always been... I was this in high school, so this is a personality trait of mine that is... I've always hated this idea of cliques and groups.
0:27:12.6 Adam Schafer: I was the kid who was popular in school, but I was popular because I had friends in every group, because I didn't identify with just the athletes and jocks. I didn't identify with just the skaters and stoners. I didn't identify just with the nerds. It's like I had good friends in all those groups, and I accepted of them and I found common things with all of them, and I interacted with all of them for all the different reasons. And so I kinda grew up that way, and then when I got into the real world realized like, "Oh, my God, we still live in a giant high school." It's like...
[laughter]
0:27:44.3 Adam Schafer: It just looks different now. Instead of it's skaters and stoners, it's vegans and carnivores. You know what I'm saying? Or, CrossFitters and power lifters. It's like, it's all the same high school bullshit to me, and it's like, "No, there's incredible things that we can take from all of these different groups, and why would you ever want to pigeonhole yourself into just one of them when they all seem to offer all these incredible things that you are missing out on by trying to identify with one ideology." Right?
0:28:12.6 Jared Hamilton: That's huge. I love that so much, man. I don't think you could have said that any better. I think people are so conditioned that they have to choose a group. I'll see someone that likes a more plant-based lifestyle, but like you said, they're like, "But I really like a little bit of chicken and eggs and fish. I eat mostly vegan, vegan style foods." But then it's like... Then now I have to almost explain my reason why. It's like, "Bro, just eat how you like to eat, that gives you the results, that makes you feel good. You don't have to pick a camp." I think that's such a big thing. Let me ask you this, and this is one of the things that I really wanted to hear your perspective on. Is, for you, where is the balance, especially like you're father, you have a life outside of fitness and things like that. Where is the balance when it come with people where it's... What I would say is, what's optimal and what's practical, 'cause I feel like so many people get caught up in the O word. It's like, Well, the optimal way is this magical split or this specific diet or this style of eating. But when it comes to life, kids, work, overtime, school, it's just not as practical. So for you, where is that line, especially when teaching this to others, like the line of what's optimal, but what's also practical?
0:29:25.0 Adam Schafer: In my opinion, the most optimal place that we can get is intuitive training, intuitive dieting. So in a place in your life where you ain't gonna track sets and reps, you aren't gonna necessarily follow a MAPS program, you don't have to follow a diet or track your food all the time, and when you have reached that place, I think you're in the most balanced place you can be with nutrition and exercise. And that doesn't mean there's not times in my life or in your life where you may be hyper-focused. I say that and then I was also the guy who got on stage and competed with the best of the best bodies. Obviously, when I made that a goal like, "Hey, I'm gonna get on stage and compete against the best bodies, I'm not gonna intuitive eat and intuitive train." At that point, it's a sport and I'm going to use every tool, every resource to give me the competitive edge to look better than the next guy. But in life, when you talk about fatherhood and work and school and friends and family and all these other things that encompass, health and balance, the place to be is to be able to intuitively eat and intuitively train.
0:30:39.3 Adam Schafer: Now, what does that look like and how do we get there is probably the deeper question is that... And it's like school or anything else. If you've never tracked and you've never done those things, well, that's the first step, 'cause then you're just being naive to think that like, "Oh, yeah, I just intuitively eat and intuitively train and I give my body the perfect balance of what it needs." It's like, "Get out of here with that." If you've never tracked your macros or counted our calories, then how can you possibly tell me when you've had a good day of eating for your body and when you've had a bad day other than maybe your ability to say you feel good, energy-wise or sleep-wise, maybe, and there's a lot of other things that could be connected to. So I think the first part is educating yourself on what eating well for you looks like, and there is no blueprint for that because everybody is gonna be different. We just talked about all the different diets, right? Different clients, different people are going to feel and respond better to certain macro ratios, calorie totals. And so honing in on where that is for you in relation to the type of training and goals that you... Physical goals that you have, and then once you...
0:31:58.2 Adam Schafer: And here's why you have to track and figure all that out and get to that place where you understand that really well, is because in order to really intuitively do this, you have to be able to know how to adjust when life changes and throws a curve ball. For example, the last year... Well, let's just say the last month for me. Last month for me, I moved, I got really sick, and then Catrina and Max we had like three weeks of just chaos around the house, where everything but my training and diet was a major priority. And so I know that my activity level, my training volume all suffered during those three weeks. And so I intuitively start to shift my diet.
0:32:43.8 Adam Schafer: I don't get out there and start weighing and go, "Oh, God, I'm not exercising." So now you gotta weigh... I don't have time for that, I'm busy with all those other things. But I know, I'm conscious of the lack of exercise and training I'm doing, the lack of movement that I'm doing, that I need to change how I would be eating when I would be training four or five days a week and moving a lot more and not sedentary at home because my family is sick or sitting in a car or sitting on the podcast. And so I couldn't do that if I hadn't first tracked diligently for an extended period of time to really learn what a high calorie day is, what a low calorie day is, what my body needs when I'm training hard, what my body needs when I'm just training to be active and physical but not be pushing intensity.
0:33:35.8 Adam Schafer: So there's a lot of that that goes into getting to the place where we intuitively eat, intuitively train, and I think that's years. I don't think that's a couple of months of doing that. I think that's years of practicing and tracking and paying attention to these things, so then you can get to a place where you are intuitively eating and intuitively training. And when you're there, I think that this is the healthiest place to be for somebody where... 'Cause the other side of tracking and measuring all those things is like orthorexia and obsession. And we tend to glorify these people on social media platforms, on Instagram and some of that. They're these amazing bodies that we all look up to and aspire to look like. But what we don't know is that a lot of those people, if not all of those people, are out of balance. And that was how you led into this question was, how do I have this balance? People aren't balanced at all. What they are is they never miss a workout, they never not weigh their food, and they obsess about those things so much because they, either one, identify with being this super ripped fit person so much, or they have massive insecurities and this is their way of coping with that, but I wouldn't consider that a healthy place to be.
0:34:56.9 Adam Schafer: It sure looks cool on Instagram, but when you talk about longevity, when you talk about balance, when you talk about being a good father, being a good husband, being a good brother or sister, good business partner, there's so many other aspects of the health sphere in my opinion that you probably are not gonna be crushing that one to that level while simultaneously having those all in balance and check. Something's always gotta give. And if you are so anal about your diet and training that you never miss a workout, you never not weigh a food... If your life... Then something else is probably getting you missed once in a while, whether that is quality time with your wife or quality time with your son. Or that extra hour you could have put into building your business, or that time you should have called your mom. The list goes on and on of other things that make us healthy, that make us balanced. And so if you are so myopically focused on this way I look that it takes from those things too, and so keeping balance for me is getting to a place where I can intuitively eat and intuitively train. And what comes with that also, aside from the education and tracking part, is also having worked through our insecurities.
0:36:20.5 Jared Hamilton: That's so good.
0:36:21.5 Adam Schafer: Most all of us that got... The very first time you walked down the gym and you got your gym membership on day one, if you could put yourself back in those shoes on that day and think about what was it that drove me to go to the gym, that drove me to put my credit card down and start this membership, 99% of the people that can recall that moment will be able to attach it to some sort of an insecurity. "Oh, I was so fat and just... I woke up one day," or, "I saw myself in the mirror," or, "My wife made a comment to me," or, "My friend jabbed at me," or, "I get made fun of all the time 'cause I look a certain way," or, "The doctor told me I need to... " And so most of us that go into exercise go into it from a bad place, not a place we wanna say... No, that place might have been enough to get you to take action, which I think there's some positive to that. If you didn't get made fun of enough, if your wife didn't say something, if you didn't see that reflection, if that didn't happen, maybe you would have never taken action. So there...
0:37:29.3 Adam Schafer: I'm not saying that there's no value in that whatsoever. So that got you there to start moving in the right direction, but at one place, one point, you wanna move away from that. Because here's the deal, if you call yourself fat or you're the skinny kid, or you're insecure about your calves or your legs, or you have these insecurities about your body, you don't like the way your chest or your shoulders look, or your butt looks like, whatever it is, even when you fix that, you build it, you turn that, that you're still that insecure boy. And anybody who's ever trained for an insecurity like that, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how buff you get, or how much ass you build or how much fat you lose, you have still identified as the fat kid, as the skinny kid, as the flat butt girl, as the no-chest guy, as the small calf dude. You've identified as that person for so long that even all the exercise and training you did to build or fix those things, still doesn't fix the identity, the body image issue that you have that you started with to get there, and you've gotta move away from that.
0:38:45.0 Adam Schafer: And if you don't move away from that, you'll consistently revert to things that are not good or healthy for the body in pursuit of this impossible image to ever live up to. And so part of the process of educating yourself around macros, educating yourself around exercise programming, and then also working on the insecurity that made you take that first step of getting into the gym, that to me is the healthiest, most balanced place that you can be. And I'll tell you, the insecurity one was last for me. So macros, figured that out a long time ago. The exercise programming, figured that out a long time ago. Still got that deep-rooted insecurities. And so for me, because mine were physical, I was the skinny kid who got teased for being skinny forever, I've got the terrible calves for how big of a dude that I am. So those have been like these big insecurities my whole life. So I would intentionally challenge myself. I remember I went... I'll never forget when I first started trying to address this, and this was years ago.
0:39:52.5 Adam Schafer: And I was still kind of insecure about my calves, I was like, I committed I was going to go to the gym in shorts every single day, I didn't care how cold it was or not, it's like, I need to face this insecurity and move past it. And part of what was crazy was that whole time, nobody ever said anything about my calves.
0:40:11.4 Jared Hamilton: No one gave a fuck.
0:40:12.4 Adam Schafer: You know what I'm saying. Nobody gave a fuck about it, whether they were small or not, and more than likely, it was just in my own head 'cause I trained the shit out of them, they came a long ways during that time. But what I think helped me through that process was facing that insecurity, putting it on the front stage, like that's... I'm coming in with shorts. I don't care if it's 30 degrees outside, I'm wearing shorts all year long, and I'm gonna just... I'm going to be staring at my insecurity until I get comfortable with it and recognize that nobody else gives a fuck. Why should I give a fuck? And move past that. So I think that... And that's I'm sharing my example.
0:40:45.2 Jared Hamilton: Sure. I love that.
0:40:47.8 Adam Schafer: Of an insecurity that I had to work through. So we all have that though, and so you've gotta face that, you gotta face that. You gotta move past that, if you're gonna move to this enlightened version of you of exercise and training. Otherwise, you've always got this deep-rooted insecurity that is what's driving your behaviors around exercise and health. And unfortunately, even if it's what motivated you and got you moving in the right direction, it's not in an optimal way to be long-term.
0:41:20.1 Jared Hamilton: Yeah, that's so good, man. And it's not all gonna happen in a 12-week program. [laughter]
0:41:24.1 Adam Schafer: No, no. Years, years normally man. A long time.
0:41:28.8 Jared Hamilton: I think it's interesting. And I hate it, I'll get questions and stuff like this about like the more mindful or intuitive, just knowing, and I think it's glorified on social where it's like your body should just know. I'm like, No, Mrs. Jones binge eats every other day and knows exactly what to do, but doesn't do it, and has a horrible relationship with her food and herself. Saying, you just know doesn't help that.
0:41:52.4 Adam Schafer: No, and honestly most... This was really brought to my attention when I got into competing. When I got into competing, I really had this idea that I was getting the opportunity to meet some of the brightest minds in the space, I assumed that if these were the most aesthetic physiques in the country, and in the world, and they're the 1% of the 1%ers at this elite level like, Man, their level of nutrition knowledge and training knowledge, it's gonna be... So I was like, I really went into it thinking this way. I got in there and I went, "Oh my God." It's the opposite of that. I saw more eating disorders, more dysfunction, more insecurities in that small population of people than I did in my entire career training morbidly obese and obese and regular ass people. There was more in that specific group than there was in all the collection of people that I trained. That was so fascinating to me. And what it really highlighted for me is that man, looking a certain way is not even the big piece. It's such a small piece of the whole puzzle when it comes to living a very healthy fit and balanced life, and unfortunately, these are the people that we're aspiring to be like, or we're looking up to on the cover of magazines and we're listening to their advice on how to train or eat, or to your point about the lady who should just know.
0:43:25.3 Adam Schafer: I mean, the reason why that's shit advice is because they don't know any better, they haven't even worked on their own shit, they're still... Sure, they figured out how to weigh food and discipline themselves and beat themselves up, but they're still motivated and deeply, deeply insecure about their own shit, and so we... And then we all of a sudden prop them up on some pedestal, like they should be in some position to coach Suzie who's struggling with weight her whole life, like that person has no business doing that. Just because they figured out one piece of the puzzle of how to weigh food and how to show up to the gym, it's like that's only a fraction of this whole process, and yet we're putting these people on these pedestals and allowing them to be the voice of reason or authority in the space, which is what gave us...
0:44:17.3 Adam Schafer: This was the motivation behind Mind Pump on day one was like, we saw the landscape, we saw the people that everybody was paying attention to that was garnering all the attention in the space, and we were like, "Man, this is not the stuff, this isn't what's gonna really help most people." In fact, most of them were parroting the same shit, talking to each other, attracting other fitness professionals, and it was a dick measuring contest on who knew more science or who knew more about nutrition. It was just like these guys kept going back and forth capping each other. Meanwhile, we're losing the majority, the majority of the people don't even care about all that nuance bullshit at all. And yet the whole fitness space, in my opinion, is going after other fitness people. And they're so concerned about what those people think about what they have to say while meanwhile, losing the majority in the conversation because they're so insecure about how their peers are going to view them that they're regurgitating this bullshit that the Suzie doesn't care about.
0:45:25.7 Adam Schafer: And so we saw that and we were like, "Oh my God, if we just... " If we can just get out there and get enough attention, we know the information that we're providing is going to help the majority, and it's gonna be better advice and information than the majority. So if we can just find a way to get a little bit of attraction and we knew that we would ride the wave with the growth of podcasting, with the growth of social media, because when we looked at the landscape, we really kinda looked at all the peer... And that's not to say there wasn't anybody that was putting good information, but when I looked at the top 10% of content that was being created, it wasn't created by the best content creators. It was the people that were entertaining or looked a certain way, and so we all were like, "Man, we know the advice we have to give is significantly better than theirs, so if we can just attract a sliver of their audience, we've got a huge business right there in itself." And so that was what gave all of us the belief that even though we weren't media heads and podcast people that we would figure this thing out and eventually be as big or bigger than we are. I get asked all the time if I thought that we would be this big, and I said, "Well, no, I expect us to be bigger." And we have...
0:46:45.6 Jared Hamilton: I love that answer. [laughter]
0:46:47.1 Adam Schafer: Since day one, that's real talk. I mean... And I think too to have massive success, you have to be a little delirious like that, there's a little bit of...
0:46:56.4 Jared Hamilton: 100%
0:46:58.2 Adam Schafer: Probably narcissistically that we believed that we were that good. So fuck, if we don't believe it, then who else is? So we had to believe it first before anybody else does.
0:47:07.7 Jared Hamilton: Agreed.
0:47:10.7 Adam Schafer: So we all believed on day one that it would be every bit this big or bigger.
0:47:14.4 Jared Hamilton: That's incredible, dude. I love it. I know that we have brought up fatherhood and your son a few times here, and most of the people who listen to the podcast in my community have kids and stuff like that. And one thing I'm curious your thoughts on, 'cause we're deep in this... Talking about this stuff with all of it. Do you frame things differently when talking to your... I'm not sure. I can't remember how old your son is, but like for example, a lot of the people that we help in our client base, in our base of community people, like kids are calling them out. Like, "Mommy, you say carbs are bad, does that mean I shouldn't have carbs?" Or, "Mommy why won't you have birthday cake with me?" Where the little kids are catching Mom and Dad's fucked up relationship with food or mom and dad's obsession with exercise or a lot of this disordered behavior. Since having your son, is there things that you go about fatherhood differently so he has a great relationship with food and with exercise, and he sees what you're doing versus kind of that line of not being obsessive and not having disordered habits?
0:48:12.4 Adam Schafer: 100%. 100%. First of all, since my son's been born, I've never weighed a food, so he's never even seen daddy weigh or track. When I was competing, that was all pre my son, and I probably wouldn't want him to see that extreme level.
0:48:30.0 Jared Hamilton: Sure.
0:48:32.5 Adam Schafer: He's 3 going on 4. So obviously, the conversation isn't at a level yet where we're discussing what a carb, or a fat or a protein is. But what I have definitely thought a lot, a lot about, and I'm very aware of is parents tend to worry so much on what to say or communicate to your children. The most powerful thing that we can do as parents is to show our children. And so my way of teaching my son about a good relationship with food is through him just seeing the way his mom and his daddy. We don't eat fast food, we don't eat junk food, we eat whole natural foods, we cook our dinners every night. He eats just a smaller portion of what we're eating. Sometimes he eats all of it. Sometimes he doesn't, I don't care, I'm not worried about any of that, some of that. My son though, has not been introduced to cookies, not been introduced to ice cream, not been introduced to cake, and he's going on four years old. And it's not like I had to deprive him where it was like a big battle.
0:49:37.6 Adam Schafer: It's crazy how many adults they love to give kids these things early or be one of the first ones to give it to them, so they can see their reaction like, "Oh my God." Because it lights these kids up, the first time you give them a candy, a sweet. It's so powerful that you can see their face change. And there's videos all over TikTok and Instagram of people going in, people laughing about it and stuff like that, but not my kid, no way, it's like... And to me, and then people were like, "So what? Is he never gonna have a cookie or ice cream or a cake?" No, absolutely, he will. What's awesome is that he's being shown a certain way of eating and behaviors around food by his mom and dad of what normal looks like, and by the time, I don't know, maybe when he... This coming year 4, maybe it's 5 when he really gets his... When we first go have some donuts together or a cake like that, what's awesome about that is that I'm gonna wait until he can communicate with me. Until he can ask me, "Daddy, can I have this or do I want... " Like he's not even at that place right now, where he's formulating that and where he's never even around that environment to even feel like it. And because we've been so consistent with that when he goes places like birthday parties, I'll let him taste and try some of that. I won't be like, "No, you can't have that son."
0:51:01.0 Adam Schafer: It's like it's a birthday party, once a year he's gonna be around them, his palette is already changed so much around eating whole foods that if he has some... A bite of someone's cake, he'll leave half of it. Like he...
0:51:16.9 Jared Hamilton: He's like, "Meh"
0:51:17.9 Adam Schafer: Yeah. He ate half... We were at a birthday party not that long ago, and I let him have half of one of these cupcakes and he didn't wanna finish it. He doesn't care for it because it's not around... We don't use it as a bribing tool like a lot of parents use candy and things like that as a way to keep their kids to behave, we've never used it like that. So yeah, and I thought all about that before he came. This was a conversation that my wife and I had. How do we want to teach him around nutrition? By no means do I want my son to be obsessive about proteins, carbs and fats, or what's a lot of cal... He's not even at an age where that should be a discussion right now, he just... He eats how we eat, and that's what's normal to him. And so I haven't had to have any of these tough conversations, and so it really starts with the parents.
0:52:03.7 Adam Schafer: It's so crazy that this even becomes this hard topic because really what it is... And I do feel for these parents. There's parents that recognize they did it wrong early on, they now wanna make a change in their life, their kids are 7, 8, 9 years old, and they're just now starting their fitness journey and then they're trying to figure it out. So I have total of compassion and empathy for trying to navigate those waters. You introduced them to all that shit early on, they've now been adjusted to it. So that's a different conversation than somebody who is potentially getting ready to have a child, you are aware of good foods and what good eating and taking care of yourself looks like. You've got a clean slate. It really comes down to you as a parent, showing the way more than talking about what they should or shouldn't be doing, that's your job at that point. Unpacking or undoing behaviors that you've done for a really long time with your kids, that's the most difficult. And my recommendation to a parent like that, is to just eliminate it from the house, and then again, lead by example. If you got kids that don't have jobs and they're 7, 8, 9 years old, they live in your house and you don't have bags of chips, you don't have pints of ice cream, you don't have sodas. You don't have all that shit in your house, then what there is to eat, there is to eat.
0:53:28.5 Adam Schafer: And if Mom and Dad make good choices to eat whole foods all the time, and they're hungry, they sit down and eat with Mom and Dad. If they don't feel like eating that, then they don't eat. And when they're hungry, they can eat what we have at the house to offer. And then one day when they get a job, they can choose to eat ice cream if they want for their food. So that's how I would handle that if I had already kinda created a monster is like, okay, again, I still have to lead by example. I like to talk to people because I come from a religious background, and I've seen the hypocrisy in the church, I've seen how there's nothing... I don't think anything is more, not annoying them like a Bible thumper. And if you want to bring someone to your religion or you want to convert somebody to your religion or your beliefs, the most powerful way to do it is not by telling them about it. It's by showing them, through your behaviors and actions in life, until they go, "What is it about you, Adam? There's just something about you that you're just so happy and this... "
0:54:40.3 Adam Schafer: And then it opens the door for you to go like, "Well, you know, I believe in this. And this has served me so well. And so if you ever wanna know about it... " That is the way to bring someone in. And the same thing goes with nutrition with your children. Like if you've already done the seven, eight years of bad behaviors, you're now trying to change that, don't all of a sudden become the parents who found religion mid-life and then they start stuffing it down their kids throat because then the kid ends up revolting and those kids end up with just as much bad behaviors and bad relationship around food when they get older because they had these parents that were one way, then they went to the other extreme, and then that turns the kid off. Instead understand you made bad decisions as a parent for seven, eight, nine years, you're now making good decisions, you're gonna have some challenge and struggle because you allowed your kids to do that for seven, eight years. Now, the first thing you do is you don't have it in your house, so that's the first way you eliminate. The next thing you do is you show them through your actions, you don't tell them, you don't force them, they're gonna go out on...
0:55:43.1 Adam Schafer: They're 9 years old, they're gonna be at a friend's house, they're gonna have an ice cream every once in a while, who cares? You control what you can control in your environment, you walk the walk as a parent and allow them to see, see their dad fitter, see their dad be able to do more activity than he was able to do before. See their dad walk around with more confidence, see their dad with more energy. See their dad with a different glow and they're... Let them see that within you and then trust me, just like the person who sees that amazing person who's always smiling and happy, your kids will... There will be an opportunity when they say, "Dad, you're so consistent with working out. And why do you do that?" Or, "Dad, how do you make your muscles look like... "
0:56:22.9 Adam Schafer: They're gonna ask questions, and when they ask those questions, then you now have that opportunity to share with them how powerful feeding your body the right way is and exercising the right way. And what it can do for your life to learn how to do that. "And you know what? This is what your dad's here for, I'll help you and I'll teach you if you wanna know." That's the way to indoctrinate your children into living a healthier, better life around food and exercise, not becoming a Bible thumper because you found God all of a sudden in your life. Now you're gonna shove the religion down your kids throat because you think that's what's best for them, no. You already fucked up for seven, eight years. Own your shit, okay, you should have done better out the gates as a parent.
0:57:09.5 Adam Schafer: That's okay, you learn, you made a mistake, parents make mistakes all the time. Now, the way you do it is to show them through the way you move through life and allow them to ask you things and then you can teach and share, that is how you teach your kids how to eat better and how to exercise more regularly.
0:57:29.1 Jared Hamilton: Man, that was so good, that was awesome. I think it goes back to... I can't remember who said it first, but parenting's caught, not taught, what I mean? Growing up, that's how it was. I didn't care what Mom and Dad said, it was well, what are Mom and Dad doing? And that's all, that's all we unconsciously emulate.
0:57:47.3 Adam Schafer: And you know what? That's like leadership one-on-one too. Like you talk about leading a company and a business and having people underneath you, one of the best things to do is just to show people. Let them see. Let them see the way you live your life, the way you do things. And if you do a good enough job, people will ask questions. And if people aren't asking questions, then reflect on yourself. Don't look outwardly on, "Oh, I'm going to push it on them." It's like, if they ain't asking me questions then I'm not living it enough to show like how powerful and how... If you really... This is how I always felt like religion. It's like, if your God, your religion, if your thing is so good, then why you got to tell me about it? I should see it, I should see it in your life. If it's so good, it's so life-changing, it's so important. It's so everything, it's like, okay, if it is, then you should exude that. I should see you and go, what do you got that I don't have? And I want some of that.
0:58:45.7 Adam Schafer: And I'm going to ask you, and if I don't, that's a reflection on yourself that you ain't walking the walk. And the same thing goes in the nutrition and exercise things. It's like you can't be a parent and you're a weekend warrior training every once in a while, or you eat good once in a while, and then you're going to push it on your kids, they see what you're doing. They see you coming home with the Jack in the box two nights out of the week, and they see that you have two good weeks of training and then you fuck it off for a month. And then you're going to guilt them for making an ice cream choice or do... I mean, come on, like walk the walk first and do it consistently for a while and discipline yourself as the parent, as the adult to get them attracted and get them curious about what it is that Dad does, or what's so different about Dad. Let them... And until you do that, you've got to continue to work on yourself and then you'll attract that.
0:59:38.0 Jared Hamilton: I love that, man. Dude, this has been so good. Final question. What are you most excited about right now? And what are some stuff you're working on? Personally or the business or whatever, what are you fired up about now and that you're working on?
0:59:53.6 Adam Schafer: So I like a lot of the stuff that we do in real estate. So that's tends to be my favorite... My favorite conversation is around the business and I'm really proud of what we've done. And we've had the opportunity now to have met a lot of... I think we've done like, I don't know, 500 or 600 interviews of all kinds of very brilliant, successful people in and out of our space. And every time I'm always... And I'm always intrigued by how they make money and how they... What kind of business they've built. And I tell you what, man, I've yet to find somebody who I would trade places with. I think that we have done a really cool job on the way we've built this business. And we kind of had this idea early on. So we thought of this, we decided it early and we've done a good job of executing. We continue to execute on this. And that was as the business continued to scale and grow, that we continue to scale ourselves out of the business. And that's really unique to social media type businesses.
1:01:01.4 Adam Schafer: Most... And I'm sure you even learned this in NCI, you are so powerful to your brand, like you're your brand and everybody builds everything around themselves and their name and they're the image on their social media, they're the image of everything. And yeah, initially we did that. We had to kind of grow our own social medias, we had to build up the podcast. But behind the scenes, we were always building this robust machine that you could remove one of us or potentially all of us, and it would still keep chugging along and still keep growing and building. And we've really achieved that. So that excites me. And it excites me that we continue to do this as we continue to build more things and do more things within the business. And at the same time, simultaneously remove ourselves from it. The going joke right now at the studio is that, I'm looking for my replacement. Who's going to replace me on the show.
1:01:58.6 Adam Schafer: And not because I really legitimately want to, but I would be okay with that. I don't need to be the face or one of the hosts on the show. I really enjoy the stuff behind the scenes more than I even enjoy talking on the podcast. I know that I'm a personality or a character within the show that I know that there's... I'm sure there's people that like that and that would maybe miss me if I went, but we've done a good job that I really believe we could bring somebody else into that role and the business would still keep operating. So I get excited about the real estate stuff, the investments in the companies that we're doing, the stock moves that we're working on, the different arms and partnerships that we're doing with the business. And so there's a lot of that. There's a ton of that that's going on that that pulls me in all different directions. It keeps me super busy and it excites me.
1:02:52.6 Adam Schafer: And it's hard. It's not easy. It's like there's all... I never feel like I'm 100% succeeding in any of them. They're all... There's always something to be done, there's always a fire to be putting out, but I thrive in that environment. I like being challenged that way. I like that. I mean, I'll never forget this conversation I had with my wife. This was like, I want to say year three or four into the podcast, maybe year four or so in the podcast. And I'm driving home from work one day, I've got her on speakerphone in my truck by myself and I'm venting to her. I'm pissed off. I think I'm mad at Sal or Doug or something. And I'm venting, I'm frustrated with them about something and this and that, and then I'm ranting about all the other things that I'm frustrated with. And I'm just like... It was like a day where I was really irritated and frustrated. And so I'm like rambling on for like five minutes before I catch my breath. And then she's silent on the other side of the line. And I'm like, "Hello?"
[laughter]
1:03:54.4 Adam Schafer: And she's like, "Are you done?" And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I'm done. What does that mean?" And then she's quiet again. And I'm like, "What?" She's like, "Would you have it any other way?"
1:04:10.1 Jared Hamilton: Oh shit.
1:04:10.8 Adam Schafer: And I had to really think about that.
1:04:13.3 Jared Hamilton: Wow.
1:04:15.7 Adam Schafer: And I said to her, I said, "Well, no, you're right." If it was easy, it would be no fun. If there wasn't frustrating days and it wasn't hard, the reward, the things that I'm excited about is that it isn't easy, that it's challenging, that I'm constantly being challenged, that I'm constantly being frustrated. It's like that is the things that I enjoy most. And if it was all laid out and easy and every time I tried something, it worked out and everybody did exactly what I told them to do, it wouldn't be fun. This is... The fun part is it's hard and I get frustrated. And it was such a powerful moment for me in the business because I remember feeling that way. And I know inside emotionally, when I was saying all that stuff that I was frustrated, angry, and I didn't want that to be happening. But then when she really challenged me to think about that and ask myself, would I want it any different and would I want all those things solved and fixed? I thought, "You're right, that I'd have nothing to be working towards, or doing if all that stuff is not a challenge."
1:05:19.5 Adam Schafer: And I was like, "Man, that's such a great point." So I'm excited about all that stuff. As it scales and grows, it doesn't get easier. I think some people think that or believe that the bigger this thing it gets, the more challenging it is, the more employees that we have, like all those things. In fact, literally yesterday I was sitting with my staff, a vulnerable moment for me. I was apologizing to my team and just saying that, "I... As the CEO, I get really overwhelmed with all the different moving parts and I value you guys so much. And it doesn't matter that I say that, I have to show that. And I haven't been showing that enough. And this is me this year committing to you that I'm going to get more FaceTime. I'm going to spend more time with you because what you guys do for this business is so incredibly valuable and I don't want you ever to feel that way. And I don't want to just blow smoke up your ass and tell you. Like I want to show you by adding value to your life. And so my commitment this year is to every day I'm going to spend more time with all of you in here." And so that's something I'm excited... I'm excited about following through that commitment.
1:06:33.3 Jared Hamilton: I love that, man. That's incredible. Where can people find you? If for some reason they somehow know me, but don't know you, if that's even a thing, but where can people find you at?
1:06:45.3 Adam Schafer: Mind Pump, anywhere. You could Google us now, right? You can find us anywhere Mind Pump. But the thing I always tell people that are finding us, is take advantage of all the free stuff. We've created so much free content. A big focus this year too, is adding more free... We have a lot of good free content coming out this year that we have. So I'm super excited about that too. So yeah, take advantage of all that. Mindpumpfree.com. That's all of our free white papers that we've created. We've got three Youtube channels that has everything from exercises to the show, to short clips of information that you can share with clients and friends. So take care... Take advantage of all the Youtube channels. You can find us on all platforms, Spotify, iTunes, Youtube, you name it. So take advantage of all the free content first before you buy anything from us.
1:07:33.7 Jared Hamilton: I love that, dude. Thank you. This has been so good. I really, really appreciate... Really, really... Wow. Words are hard. Really, really appreciate you taking the time and talking with me. This has been great.
1:07:41.4 Adam Schafer: Thanks Jared. I appreciate it.
1:07:44.5 Jared Hamilton: And we are back. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of the show. It means a ton. A few things before you leave, because I have a lot of stuff for you. Number one is absolutely take advantage of the free content that we have. My thing is I never want to come across this and be like a big pitch fest or anything like that. And I want you to utilize and take advantage of our free content. Just like Adam talked about, like utilize their free content. I want you to utilize my free content. One of my goals has always been, I want my free content to be better than their paid content. Not like Mind Pump. I'm talking about other coaches specifically. I want my paid content to be better than other people's free content. And that's the thing is I have all that for you in the description. If you have not gone through my Fat Loss Checklist free course, it's a five day email mini course that'll change your life. And I've recently updated it and completely overhauled all the videos and it'll change your life quite literally.
1:08:34.4 Jared Hamilton: I get emails almost every day about it from people, how happy they are with it and it's completely for free. So it's called the Fat Loss Checklist. Go to hit that in the link below. Definitely, I'm trying to just go through it my head 'cause with stuff like this, I don't have notes in front of me or anything. Definitely go check out our free group. So I think everyone needs to have a community around them because going through this game of transformation, unfortunately most people don't have the support they need. I mean health's half the reason people get into coaching, is just so they have a level of support and accountability. But we're not talking about coaching yet. We're talking about you just getting support that you need. Because at the end of the day, most people struggle with it. Like this could... I don't know, Tim, maybe this is you, maybe it's not, that your partner doesn't get it. Like your husband, wife, they don't get it. Your friends just kind of poke fun at you and they're like, "Oh, Janet's on her diet kick again," or whatever the case is.
1:09:23.7 Jared Hamilton: Or you feel just alone on this journey. It's terrible. And we become unconsciously like those we associate with. So it's no wonder you struggle and fall off. So I want you to have a home base that's completely free where you can go to, to get loved on, to get the support, to get the help that you need to push you in the right direction. So I have that for you. It's a group called Fat Loss Simplified. It's hosted on Facebook because everyone has it. You're on Facebook anyway. So definitely go check that out. Just I'll leave the link in the description. Just add yourself. I'll make sure you get accepted 'cause I want to help you. And that's where I can do a little bit more than just like this and help you completely for free. So you want to go join that.
1:09:58.8 Jared Hamilton: If you're not following the other channels like TikTok and Instagram, on the Youtube account, you'll want to do that. All those links are below because all the podcast interviews are on Youtube. Obviously the majority of our listeners listen just to audio like iTunes or Spotify or whatever. But all these episodes are full length on the Youtube and are on our Youtube account. And I know you'll get a lot out of it if you prefer that. And if you'd like to see the actual interviews between me and my guests, like Adam or whatever. What else? I feel like I'm missing something. Also if you are in one of those situations where you feel like you do need some extra help and you're like, man, I would... I think I do need a little bit higher level of accountability and certainty and support from someone in the trenches with me coaching me and walking me through this stuff. I do have a special link for that. I know this is not the majority, but if you go to the link below and you want to apply for coaching with us, we only take on a certain amount of people every month.
1:10:53.5 Jared Hamilton: We don't accept anyone into the program just 'cause they have a credit card. You do have to apply, you do have to schedule a call with my team. That way we can make sure this is even a good fit or not. And then make sure you understand how the program works and all that kind of stuff. So I do have a special spot in my heart, like I say every time for my podcast listeners. So I have a special link below in the description. That way it takes you to the front of the line if we do have a wait list that month, depending on when you're listening to this. But then also if you do get accepted into coaching, I'm giving you about $4,000 worth of free stuff just because you're coming from the podcast and it means a lot to me. So I think that's it. I think that's all the announcements.
1:11:28.1 Jared Hamilton: Otherwise, I appreciate the fuck out of you. Thank you so much for being here. Stay tuned for next week's video. Be sure and subscribe to the channel if you are not already, whether it be the Youtube, whether it be the show, whatever you're listening to it on, because you don't want to miss out some of the stuff that I have coming up. It's going to be huge. Some of the guests that I have coming on, you're going to flip shit. It's going to be great. Otherwise, I love you and we will talk to you next time.
[music]
About Adam:
Adam was drawn to personal training initially because he thought it would be a good side gig while he studied to be a physical therapist. He worked for a 24 Hour Fitness, where he was incentivized to make sales—an area where he thrived.
Adam was an athlete growing up and his competitive nature enjoyed the heavy sales motivation. He admits that at this point was just an okay trainer, but he excelled at the business side and at helping the other personal trainers build their businesses.
After several years, Adam gained more certifications—and experience—and became a much better personal trainer. Even still, what got him excited about the world of personal training initially was that competitive, sales-driven environment.
Lessons From Clients:
Adam got a lot from training clients that had very different ideologies than he did. He grew up in a religious, conservative environment—but when he moved to the Bay Area, he found himself surrounded by people who were very liberal, atheist, etc. Adam really enjoyed interacting with individuals from all walks of life. It led him to be able to change the way he thought about things—while solidifying some of his own beliefs.
These experiences and interactions helped Adam evolve and change his beliefs surrounding wealth and success. Many of his clients were very successful. One client he had, in particular, was very hard on some of Adam’s business ideas. Her criticisms were something that influenced him heavily and allowed him to change the way he thought about his ideas.
Adam often gets asked if Mind Pump would be successful if it started today, and it’s always a question that makes him think—because timing is everything in business and their show started at a time when there was a need and not as much competition.
Ideologies and Self-Reflection:
When Adam believes strongly in something, he investigates and seeks out the opposing ideas to that belief. He does this because he believes that the most growth happens from the questioning of those beliefs—while there is too little growth in confirming one's own biases over and over again.
Adam enjoys disagreeing with others, debating, and is okay with being wrong and adjusting his beliefs accordingly.
Avoiding Training and Nutritional Dogma:
Jared brings up that the realm of training and nutrition is one area where people often hold on to beliefs about the way it “should be done,” and get married to a certain ideology.
Adam points out that training and nutrition are areas that are so individualized to each person and extremely nuanced—even when something works for a person for a period of time, it may not work for them later.
Adam personally has things that, in the past, worked great for him, but no no longer serve him in regard to his training and nutrition. He often finds that when a person finds something that works well for them, they believe that is the only way for them to be successful.
People also have a desire to latch onto certain “diet or training cults” because we are inherently social creatures.
People don’t realize that it has very little to do with the training program or nutrition program they started and more to do with what they stopped doing previously.
When Adam coached people, he would take them through many different training and diet philosophies and educate them about why those were having a specific impact on them.
For example, he would take someone and have them eat a vegan diet, and then switch them to a Mediterranean diet, then perhaps a keto diet, etc.
At each point, he would explain to them why they were feeling good/bad, and what impact those diets were having—like going from vegan to Mediterranean. The Mediterranean diet would inherently raise their protein intake, allowing them to build more muscle.
He did this to help his clients understand that they didn’t have to live in a rigid world and fall into the traps of a religious diet ideology.
He sees that people tend to want to put themselves in boxes—something that Adam has never gravitated towards.
Jared also finds that people are very eager to put themselves in boxes, when, in reality, you don’t need to pick a camp—you can simply eat how you want to eat.
If you like to eat mostly vegan, but have chicken, eggs, and fish, occasionally, it doesn’t need to be justified.
The Balance between Optimal and Practical:
To Adam, the most optimal place you can get to is intuitive training and intuitive eating.
He notes that there are, of course, times when you will be more dialed in—like if you’ll be stepping on stage or if you are playing a sport and need to get a competitive edge.
As far as what that looks like—and how you get there—you have to learn.
If you have never tracked or never trained, you need to do those things and gain experience and knowledge. There is no blueprint because everyone is different. Different people will feel and respond to different macros and training programs.
By gaining education, learning what works for you, and getting experience tracking, you will be able to work towards eating and training intuitively.
Adam recently had a few weeks where things at home were really hectic. His training was down because of this, so he naturally shifted his eating habits. He is only able to recognize and respond to his needs like that because he tracked for a long time and has trained for a long time.
Adam states that learning to eat and train intuitively is a process that takes years. He believes this is the most balanced a person can get.
He also points out that the other, “darker” side of obsessive tracking—which is often glorified on social media and is very out of balance. People who never miss a workout and always track/weigh their food to the gram may look cool, but they’re not balanced.
There are many areas of life that require dedication and for you to show up—like being a good parent, friend, or business partner. If you are so anal that you never miss a workout, never not weigh your food, etc., it's likely that something else is getting missed. It could be quality time with your loved ones, building your business, and more.
The list of other things that make us healthy and balanced is long, which is why Adam sees intuitive eating and training as the key to being balanced.
He also notes that what comes with that—aside from the education—is having worked through our insecurities.
Adam points out that if you were to think back to what got you to go down to the gym and get a membership in the first place, for 99% of people it would be some kind of insecurity. Many people go into exercise from a bad place—a reflection or comment could be what pushed them into the gym, but at some point, you want to shift away from those insecurities.
If you don’t let go of those insecurities and change those identities, despite all the exercise and training you do to fix those things, you will revert to things that are not healthy in pursuit of an impossible image.
Adam emphasizes that educating yourself around macros, exercising, programming, and working on the insecurity that made you go to the gym, is the healthiest, most balanced place you can be.
Adam admits that the insecurity portion was the last hurdle for him. He was always the skinny kid, he always had small calves.
An example of how he worked on one of his insecurities was that several years ago he challenged himself to go to the gym every day in shorts—no matter what—so his calves would be on full display.
He found that no one said anything about his calves. He realized that nobody gave a fuck about his calves, so why should he?
Even if your insecurity is what got you moving in the right direction, it’s something that ultimately doesn’t serve you—and you have to let it go.
Jared gets lots of questions surrounding “mindfulness” and finds that it is glorified on social media—like, you should just be able to eat and train intuitively without years of education and practice.
However, he points out that someone who binge eats every other day and doesn’t have healthy habits isn’t helped by the advice that “you just know” when it comes to being mindful while they eat.
This was really brought to Adam’s attention when he started competing.
He had assumed that when he started competing he would be around the most knowledgeable minds—because these people had the best physiques.
The reality was that he saw more eating disorders and more insecurities in that small population than in his entire career of training morbidly obese, obese, and regular people.
This highlighted for him that looking a certain way was not the biggest piece of the puzzle when it comes to living a healthy, fit, and balanced life.
Even though this group of people had figured out how to train and weigh their food, they were still motivated by deep insecurities. These types of people often get put on a pedestal that allows them to be an authority and believe that they should be able to coach someone who has struggled with weight for their entire life.
Unfortunately, they only have a fraction of the whole process down.
This was what led to the foundation of Mind Pump.
They saw that the whole fitness space was losing the majority of regular people because the fitness space was going after other fitness people—being more concerned about what their peers thought and not making information accessible to the average person.
Mind Pump was created to reach the majority and bring them better advice about health and fitness without all the nuance and noise from fitness culture.
Fitness, Health, and Building a Strong Food Foundation with Your Kids:
Adam has not weighed any of his food since the birth of his son. He competed before his son was born and probably wouldn’t want to have him see that extreme level.
Adam believes that the most powerful way you can impact your children is not with what you say, but with what you do.
His son is approaching 4 years old and eats the same foods that he and his wife eat, just a smaller portion. Whether he does or doesn’t finish his food isn’t important. They have also not brought cookies, cake, or ice cream into the house.
If they’re at an event like a birthday party, Adam will let him have cookies, cake, and/or ice cream if he wants some, but they established a normal, healthy diet first. They also do not use candy as a way to bribe him into behaving.
Adam points out that it really starts with the parents.
He feels for the parents out there who realize they made mistakes early on—who are just starting their fitness journey and realizing that there are things they could have done differently.
In that situation, Adam suggests eliminating things like soda, chips, and ice cream from the house and having the kids eat good, whole foods that Mom and Dad eat.
Mom and Dad need to lead by example.
Adam points out that the most powerful way to bring someone to your beliefs and way of thinking is not by telling them about it, but by living it. It’s the same with nutrition.
If you are a parent who made bad decisions surrounding food for 7/8/9 years, you need to start by making good decisions. Eliminate the foods from your house that aren’t nutritious, eat healthily, walk the walk, and allow your kids to see you with more energy, fitter, feeling better, etc.
If your kids go to a friend's house and have ice cream, it’s not a big deal. Your kids will see the differences and they will, at some point, ask you about health and fitness.
You need to show them by the way you move through life.
Jared points out that we unconsciously emulate. He knows when he was a kid it wasn’t “what do Mom and Dad say?” It was “what are they doing?”
Adam states that it’s the same in leadership. He believes that one of the best things you can do is show.
If you do a good job people will ask questions—and if people are not asking questions, then you are not doing a good enough job.
It’s the same with health and nutrition. You need to walk the walk.
What Adam is Fired Up About:
Adam is really proud of the businesses that they have built with Mind Pump.
He is most excited about further building the business while becoming further removed from the image of the business.
He really enjoys the behind-the-scenes aspect— real estate ventures, investments, etc.—even more than being a host on the podcast.
He never feels that he is 100% succeeding in all areas of the business, but he thrives in that environment.
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